I would love to read your thoughts, hopes, wants & needs in future offerings?

PSR 3100 ?

Seems to be the theme Yamaha has used for quite some time now I think. I would think it will probably be a T2 junior, much as the 3k is the Tyros 1 jr, the 2k was the 9k jr, 740 the 8k jr, etc etc..

If the next "junior" comes with a little better set of keys, I'm probably there as a replacement or backup to the PA80 for live work. Otherwise, I'm probably looking at buying someone's T1, or maybe even an SD1. No matter what they do with the new articulation voices, I think I'll still be ahead using vsti's and sample sets for lead voices anyway, so if that and some new styles are the biggest improvements in the new version, it probably won't matter all that much to me. Any of the last or present generations of mid to high end arrangers are probably good enough for me to use for live work, and they will all still fall short for me in the studio.

AJ

Unless it is a module or a 76 key keyboard I don’t think Yamaha (or any other arranger manufacturer) will get me to continue playing their silly and expensive games.

The game of the manufacturers releasing “new” keyboards with one or two minor changes to the previous model and asking an enormous amount of money for it. And on top of that we are not even getting what we want for that price. We tell them what we want and they ignore us.

I guess there will be those who don’t mind upgrading to a “new” keyboard even if it only has a few minor additional things.


I suspect however that the majority is fed up with the old way of doing things and is prepared to take a different root. If one already has a good hardware arranger like the Korg Pa1x, Roland G70, Ketron SD1 or Gem Genesys, using softsynths and or hardware module is the way to go.

I have no doubt that the Tyros 2 is a good keyboard for a first time arranger buyer. But if you already have an arranger that is and has been working good for you getting the Tyros 2 IMO only means that you are spending all that money for the 40 or so SAV and styles using those sounds.


Unless Yamaha or another keyboard manufacturer comes with something musically and technically revolutionary, software arrangers and synths and hardware module are the way to go.

To the Genesys,

let me tell you first that I hear your frustration and I understand where you coming from.
But here are a few things to consider:
You wrote:"And on top of that we are not even getting what we want for that price. We tell them what we want and they ignore us. "

Well who is "we"??
If you would say "I" or some of us it would be a more correct statement.
Let me explain: I'am upgrading from a 9000Pro to the T2 and Yamaha did actually implement all the features and sounds that I wanted. And I know this is true for a lot of other people on this and other forums.

I don't upgrade to every model that comes out, because as you correctly stated the changes might not justify the price. And my Pro still rocks; believe me.

People or customers come in at different times of the game. The T1 was good for some, but not good enough for me to upgrade. However when you skip a generation or two the difference is quite significant.

It's the same with computers, cars etc.
I don't buy every new generation that comes along.
When the right one hits the market, I'll buy.
If you look at the recent history of KB's(10 years or so), there has actually been a tremendous change in technology.
Yes I would like to have a car that would give me a 100 miles per gallon and believe me just like you know what you want in a KB and you know it's possible, this one is too but held back for whatever reason.
I want to be able to fast foreward through a comercial on the TV; the technology is there but it aint gonna happen soon.

Anyway as stated earlier when the T1 came out a lot of people were happy. I was happy for them but it wasn't for me.
Now T2 is here and again a lot of people are happy. Just read this and other forums. There is no "we" in that. Everybody has different wants and needs.
Nobody forces you to buy a new KB for whatever price, as nobody forced me to buy a T1. And as said earlier: I didn't

I do believe though that at some point in the near future it will be possible to customize your KB to a certain extend just like we do somewhat with our PC programs.

Til then I do hope that something will come along for you in due time.

And of course there are some here that buy every generation that comes along for the latest thrill or so. In order to justify that, there has to be something wrong with the current model.

I think that ALL top models right now in the hands of a musician can make some darn good music and will do so for a long time if would concentrate more on that.

Remember everybody has different needs and wants that can't all be implemented at once.

I hope this gives a little food for thought.
Meantime I'm happily awaiting my T2 [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Eric


[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 10-23-2005).]

"We tell them what we want and they ignore us" ??

Who is 'us' ?
I get the impression some of 'us' think themselves to represent all musicians on earth

It's obvious almost everyone here realizes the SAV truly IS revolutionary and some people persist in telling "Oh.... it's nothing!" and already ask : "What is NEXT?" .

Pretty funny how these guys try to ignore the Tyros2..... by telling: "Well, my PSRxxxx does the same!" or "There is another way to go !" ......

I think I'm not a 'first time arranger buyer' because I owned KN2000, KN3000, KN5000, X1, SD1, G70 , PA1XPRO and Tyros1. For me the last one beats ALL others I owned before.

Wednesday I hope to get my T2 and can feel the power of this beast.

Please try to get a chance to play one before telling your 'findings' based on ...nothing.

BTW

Here is a little known fact: As stated in an earlier discussion here at Synth Zone: Yamaha sales are only 5% of the world sales.
The rest goes pretty much to Europe.

It has been said many times that Yamaha and other manufactures don't care or listen.
However here is the little known fact:
After the Psr-9000 was released 5 representatives from Yamaha Japan went to Germany (one of the biggest KB sellers. Membership on the Yamaha forum alone is in the thousands) to ask members of the german Yamaha forum what they want/need.

The Tyros was the answer: No speakers (the 9000 was darn heavey ), megavoices, better guitar voices, better screen (color), light up buttons, so you know were you are in a registration etc, better music finder etc...

A lot of the demands were implemented.
Also a lot of the German Tyros players are proffesional.
So you see, they did listen.

Again I understand your frustration, but with only 5% of US players, priorities are certainly different.

Eric

Well said Roel.

Eric

Hi Roel and Eric
I guess I should have defined the use of the terms “we” and “us”.

The “we” and “us” was referring to the keyboard consumers with purchasing power who were asking for along with other features, 76 keys and or a module, better integration of arranger and workstation functions on one keyboard and computer editing software for the keyboard.

I do understand that everybody has different needs and wants that can't all be implemented at once.
However, if keyboard manufacturers are not careful, they could begin to loose customers to software solutions if they keep making these half steps with their hardware arrangers and other keyboards.

I do understand that most people in general (my self included), usually would want the latest and greatest thing on the market if we did not have to put money in to the equation.

Unfortunately, with some persons, the purchase of a “new” keyboard, a justification (cost – benefit analysis) has to be done.

Again I don’t have a problem with the Tyros 2. I think Yamaha has exhalent marketing skills in hyping a product. Keeping most of their Tyros 1 fans happy is a very good strategy. However, I still do not feel that for a relatively satisfied owner of a flag ship arranger the Tyros 2 would be a wise choice at this time. I agree that the 40 or so SAV are revolutionary (or at least took realism of voices to another level) but that’s the only significant thing IMO you are getting extra with the Tyros 2 when compared with the other flagship arrangers from the other manufacturers.


Again that is not to put the Tyros 2 down. It would be a good board for existing Tyros 1 fans and for some one who does not currently have a flagship arranger or for some one who has the money to spend.

Would I like to own a Tyros 2? Of course!! However money has to come in to play and as such a business justification has to be done.

I think the manufacturer to look out for to come with a truly revolutionary product is Ketron. They have not released a flagship arranger keyboard for a good amount of years. If they are doing their research and viewing some of the forums, they would try and capitalize on an emerging market that wants a light 76 key keyboard, better integration of arranger and workstation functions on one keyboard and computer editing software for the keyboard. I know mediastation is doing something like that but marketing is not there right now.

These are just my opinions which are a fusion of different ideas from different forum threads.


BTW My “findings based on ...nothing” are the same “findings” that the first Tyros 2 purchasers based their decision to by the Tyros 2 with out trying it in person.

Hi Donny,

to you question: T2 is Released, But What do you think is "NEXT"

Answer: play the darn thing and have fun

Eric

To the Genesys,
I guess I was the first Dutchie that ordered the T2 a couple of months ago after I had a long, very interesting conversation with a dutch Yamaha rep.
He explained all the new features in detail and I got exited at that very moment.
He also answered my/our questions about 6 octaves, key-size...etc.

So, my ordering/purchase was not based on nothing :

I owned Tyros1, I love it! (styles/ease of use, sounds, low weight etc)

I knew in detail what was coming with Tyros2.

My trust in Yamaha (reps)/ my dealer.

I knew my (very nice) price

I was allowed to see some early demo's

Everybody is free to like- or dislike brands/products but please stop complaining about 'dirty commercial games', plastic housing, only 5 octaves, missing 16-track multitrack recorder with full editing features, XLR inputs, phantom power, missing speakers ...

Here is another thought:

How come that so many forum members around the world already ordered their T2 even before it hit the stores?
Those are only the ones we heard about on the forum, but there are many more that don't post but read. I know several of them.
Are they all stupied or misslead?
I don't think so.

I hear you rather have a T2 but don't have the money.
Is that Yamahas fault?
I don't think so.
I compared the price of my old Psr-8000 vs the new T2. The difference is not that much considering the years in between, but the difference in KB's is HUGE.

I'd rather have a Mercedes or BMW, but I don't have the money for it.
Is that their fault? I don't think so either.
So instead I drive something else.

We're talking top end model arranger KB's here.

Regarding 76 keys...... well; I don't have an answer either. Got me on that one..

However going from 76 keys (9000Pro) to T2 will definatly be an adjustment.
I had a long talk with Scott Yee about that who, as you know is trained in classical and Jazz piano and has a grand piano at home.

Most of the time we don't need 76 keyes, but it's nice to have.
Using the octave up and down feature on the fly will be the answer for me.
I watched my playing style and it doesn't happen to often.
If you're a giging musician, you value any saved size or wheight as many here on the forum can tell.

BTW Roel: what time do you go to bed?
It must be 1 or 2am in your neck of the flatlands?

Eric

Hey Donny, aren't you jumping the gun a bit? The Tyros2 has barely hit the streets and you're ALREADY wanting to barge ahead with the 'what's better' 'what's next' debate.


Donny, I have to agree with Eric Bott. I think we all need at least a little time to play the latest Tyros2 offering first, don't you? I mean, how can you tell where you're going until you know where you're at first.

As far as a PSR3000 followup, I'm sure Yamaha will oblige, but not at least until summer 06, and 'mark my words', as with the PSR3000 vs Tyros1, it won't include nearly all the bells & whistles of Tyros2. That would be marketing suicide for Yamaha. I can assure you that no new ground shattering technology will be included in the PSR3000 sucessor. I do predict though, that Super Articulation Voices will eventually appear (more sooner than later) in the Motif line. Like MegaVoices, it seems that the latest groundbreaking sound technolgy is first showcased with the Tyros model arrangers, and then

As far people's hope for a 76 note Yamaha arranger goes, I've been advised by people I know who have inside connections with the arranger keyboard development division at Yamaha Japan, that because the 76 note 9000pro turned out to be a huge financial disaster for them, they've developed COLD FEET about producing a 76 note arranger again in any near future.

Financially speaking, the 9000pro was a failed Yamaha grand experiment to expand arranger interest to the pro musician market. Unfortunately, pro musicians continued to show little/no interest in an arranger type keyboard, even with 76 keys, and the home hobbyist was more or less intimidated by it.

I personally could care less if the keyboard I own is marketed to/for a PRO or Hobbyist player. As a PRO arranger keyboard player, I don't need to convince myself or anyone else that I'm a pro, by what keyboard I play. I merely want the best lightweight 'portable' keyboard that inspires me to play my best. Tyros1 continues to delivery for me, and I expect Tyros2 to the same (+ a lot more) - Scott

I fully agree that Yamaha is probably correct in it's corporate reasoning behind snubbing the American arranger market... correct for a mega-corporation that is... sucks to be an American consumer. Everything related to the Tyros 2 seems designed for the target German market, right down to the fact that the info was released in German long before it was available in English. What will happen when system upgrades become available - German before English? Will American Tyros 2 owners be put on the back-burner in favor of the larger markets? When you think about it, do you really want to be part of 5% of anything? That's a pretty exclusive group, with a $4k membership fee and the probability that your investment will be seen as little more than a statistical blip by Yamaha.

Maybe I am an American musician, but over the past 30+ years I have invested a hefty amount of money in keyboards from Yamaha, Roland and Korg. And the thought that my business and trust in these products makes me less important as customer is pretty revolting. That's not to mention how much publicity and marketing I provide for these companies by displaying their products and corporate name to hundreds of other American consumers each week when I perform.

Time for a change...

On second thought, if NI's new GM module and it's 2gb of sample rom is as good as advertised, my only change might just be making the PA80 the backup to One Man Band, instead of the other way around ( as it is now ). Or maybe I'd consider trading the ES6 in for a 76 key repacement ( next generation of the Motif series even ), as the current ES itself makes for a pretty good kb and controller to boot in my system.

Short of that, after my previous experiences with a brand new "fresh off the shelf" PSR 2000 and a just released 740 before it, I'm content to let someone else betatest the latest and greatests this time around before I'd consider them. So the PSR3k or the "old" Tyros would suit me just fine.

This "new" voice articulation thing .. I doubt that there is any groundbreaking technology there, at least nothing that is going to surpass the sounds I already have.

I don't play out full time like some of the other members here, so my priorities are different. If it were a full time endeavor for me, then sure I'll say.. yes give me the latest and best tool, but.. I don't need to spend big bucks on something that probably wouldn't be particularly useful to me in my studio.

Realistically, for me Donny, in answering the original question, Yamaha will probably never make the arranger that I'd find useful for anything other than live work. I guess I'm a "5" percenter too, but then again my needs don't even fit neatly into that group either.

Ideally for me, which would put me in a much smaller niche market, something like the Korg Oasys, which is essentially the combination of a Triton Extreme on steroids, a modern Karma, and a true dedicated sampling machine, all in one, and then be able to add the best arranger functions to it... then they will have made the hardware solution for my studio. As a footnote though, the current Oasys is commanding what ? seven grand or so.. ? That might be a little out of my budget.

Hi Esh

you wrote: "What will happen when system upgrades become available - German before English? Will American Tyros 2 owners be put on the back-burner in favor of the larger markets?"

Not quite true.
Remember when Scott Yee asked for the fill to self function as an upgrade for the Tyros1?

Nobody on this forum really cared, so he asked me whether I could post his concerns on the German forum which I did.
Much to my suprise nobody answered either.
The German forum is hosted and monitored by Yamaha Germany.

We thought that this was the end of that, but not so: they did implement this feature with the next update.

Another thing: Nowadays more than ever it is important of who you know. Those with conections or power or both.

For those of us who bought a T2 and may need an update in the future: Just call on us German speaking fellas to post it on the German forum and of course on as many forums as possible since Yamaha is reading a lot of them. I know.

Instead of complaining all the time maybe we can work together and maybe we'll get a thing or two done this way. I've seen it many times.
Is'nt this what this great forum is all about (or at least should be?)

Eric

I am glad to see that those who have or will have the Tyros 2 are proud owners or would be owners.


I think that is an important element in having an instrument; feeling comfortable with it and willing to defend any perceived negative comments about it.


The “nothing” that the pre orderings/purchases were based on is nothing more than what is available on the Internet now.

My reference to wanting a Tyros 2 but not having money was not an attempt to blame Yamaha for that. It was to show that like with a lot of keyboard products (Tyros 2 G70, Pa1x midjay Motif, …) I am sure like others I would like to have. Realistically, with so many keyboard products on the market, one has to make a choice. There is where the “game” is played. All of the products have their strong points. But there is no one that has everything that everyone wants. So its either you play the game of swapping keyboards every year or so, or try to custom your own set-up to suit your needs since no manufacturer, whether willing or unwillingly, is not making the right keyboard.


Regarding 76 keys, I think a lot of people are tired of having to do work-arounds. Yes using the octave up and down buttons would work but why do that if 76 keys can do it?

Believe me I understand the business reasons for Yamaha (or any other manufacturer for that matter) doing what they are doing. And that’s fine their bottom-line is important to them. But I, along with many other persons, are tired of always helping their bottom-line and playing their games while “we” are not getting exactly what “we” want and are constantly having to do work-arounds.


Lets face it arrangers are not made for the profession gigging musicians in mind “we” are just unintended buyers of arrangers. So trying to get the features “we” want would be fruitless. So I think it is important for manufacturers to know that a good number of persons are dissatisfied and are prepared to go a different way if they don’t start listening to “us”. If “we” are a smaller market of a small market then manufacturers would have know problem in saying “forget about ‘them’, we will just continue to exploit the home and novice arranger market.”


The next keyboard manufacturer who hopes to unveil a flagship keyboard had better be doing their homework and not give “us” a half step in terms of features and ground breaking technology. They better be thinking in the way of a strong housing for the keyboard, a light 76 keyboard or both a 61 and 76 version, at least 8-track multitrack recorder with full editing features, XLR inputs, phantom power ... which would be important for gigging and studio musicians.

Even though I was orginally advised by Steve Deming, that the missing footpedal activated "repeating fill to self" feature on Tyros1 was intentional on Yamaha's part, I'm now 110% convinced that it was merely a Tyros OS programming over-sight, as all previous Yamaha keyboards had included it. I'm grateful that Yamaha Japan finally included it in a subsequent update. It's just too bad it took them (1+ years) so long to act.

Whether Yamaha Japan acted on my request from my postings on Synthzone, Eric's post on the German Yamaha Forum, or from my private email to them, forwarded to Yamaha Japan, from Steve Deming at Yamaha USA, I'll never know.

I'm happy to learn now, that Yamaha Japan's Arranger developers are finally reaching out beyond their own internal corporate buracracy to include arranger kb programming & musician input abroad, not only from Germany, but now the UK, and finally, even talented American musician-software programmers who may perhaps be able to best able to satisfy the arranger style needs of the American arranger keyboard player.

Scott

hi,
actually it would be interesting to know "who" buys arranger keyboards and what percentage is the hobbyist and what percentage is the professional musician.
I'm guessing, but I would imagine the bigger marketplace may well be the hobbyist. If so, with the advent of software arrangers, keyboard manufacturers may have something to worry about.
I've been a keyboard junkie for nearly 20 years.
I've had the
Technics Kn800,2000,3000,5000,7000.
Roland E20,E86,G800,VA7, RA90, Ra95.
Korg i2,i5
Yamaha PSR6700, 9000pro, DGX305
QY10,20,700 ( not true arrangers, but I thought I'd include them anyway)

In between the Kn5000 & Kn7000 I had a 2 year break. No doubt my list would have then also included the kn6000, kn6500 and the Roland g1000 as I normally update both kn & roland when each new model came out.

Won't bother listing synths, samplers etc

In the end I finally thought what for, I can now get my arranger functions thru a piece of software. There's no shortage of styles floating around and, the software can help me create my own . The one luxury I have is a beautiful Yamaha digital piano
(without arranger functions) that I use as a controller. My junkie needs are fulfilled.

Be interesting to see what the Tyros2 is like.
Can I afford it "yes"
Will I buy it "I doubt it", it's going to have to be pretty amazing to get me hooked again.

best wishes
Rikki

Thanx everyone for the super replies..I didnt know what to expect when I posted this question ...but after reading all the posts I hope the manufacturers read these things too and maybe it will sink in for future models.

Rikki, when you have a lot and you spend a little you still have a lot!!!

With all those keyboards you would not have time enough to make music?

I sold my Tyros 1 about 6 months ago in order to downgrade to something more portable, a PSR3000... It did mostly what the T1 could, but it was easier to move around and suited me fine. So, why am I now going back to a Tyros 2?

Having owned a Tyros 1, the Tyros 2 is more than a few new voices and styles. One of the big changes has been reintroduction of user sampling, this opens a new avenue and at least means I can add new sounds (and not just reshape the presets!). The Hard disk recorder is nice, but not a necessity. The SA voices obviously are a huge plus in terms of their sheer quality, and the life and dynamics of the styles incorporating them is another big plus. I also missed the live drums on the 3000, so having even better drums on T2 is another swing for me.
Support for USB devices is something else that persuaded me, having got used to it from PSR3000. I am also keen to have a better quality key action and improved organ sounds!
I'm sure there's a lot more, better control of registrations, vga output, better foot switch control of parameters, the list goes on!

Perhaps I'm just happy I sold my Tyros 1 when I did, as the marketplace is now swamped with them!

Simon


------------------
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Hi all,

This is an extremely important point.

To be brutally honest, I believe we SHOULD blame Yamaha
A few years ago, I was involved in the marketing of some new items for the Packaging Industry. My company invested, in todays values , the equivalent of perhaps a million dollars in new equipment. I urged the Owners to sell the newly-produced product at a low -low price and capture the market with our product and then adjust the prices. I remember saying "just as the Japanese do ". Unfortunately, the Owners decided to RAISE the prices and sell on "Quality????". Needless to say, nobody bought the product at the high prices and we lost a lot of money.
Take a look at what the Chinese are doing now. Most consumers buy those products imported from China because they are extremely competitively priced against all others, regardless of the 'supposed' inferiority in quality, which is not at all true!!!
So what happened to the Japanese Marketing strategy?
I believe that the quality of Yamaha products is just about the best nowadays and they should seriously consider kicking the competition into touch by REDUCING the prices NOW.
Anyone with any knowledge of Sales and Marketing out there to agree or disagree with my comments?
cheers


------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

Hi Frank,
they were spread over a period of nearly 20 years, I really only had a couple of keyboards at a time the latest synth or samplers.
I never kept anything longer than 6 months
( except for my kn's).
Early 90's I helped out in a music store taking phone calls on midi/keyboard related problems backing up the keyboard salesman ( who was a guitarist not a keyboardist) and doing one on one tutorials on workstations, keyboards, etc. Boss wouldn't let me be a salesperson as a 40 year old mother didn't quite fit the young "ROCK" image of the store. ( haa haa).. Anyway, I couldn't complain. I was able to buy for just over cost , lost little on resale met some interesting musicians, beat sitting at home watching "the soapies".
Never became much of a musician, ( I think you really have to be born one??) but it was great being able to help musicians sort out their gear.
We take it a bit for granted nowadays, some workstations & top of the line keyboards can pretty much do the lot. Sequencing, sampling, loads polyphony, great sounds etc

Having been involved with synths prior to midi, and having gone thru the various stages, I suppose some of excitement has gone out of it for me. Computers & software arrangers is a bit of a new challenge, but maybe I'm just past it. haa haa.

best wishes
Rikki

The Tyros 3 will have more than a half-gigabyte of sound ROM (maybe compressed to something smaller). Included among the new sounds will be the biggest piano sample ever in an arranger, probably over 100MB. I think these extrapolations are pretty safe.

An interesting new feature would be to host software plug-ins, maybe VSTs or maybe Yamaha proprietary software plugins. But I would think this would show up on the workstations first. Another possibility is the appearance of physical modeling of some instruments components, such as piano soundboards.

Cliff.....Your ideas sound great in theory...But I was thinking that the average player might be detered with so much future High Tech technology....let alone just Playing one of these new arrangers KB's as it is now. Not Everyone is HI-TECH Savy ....& besides that just playing is difficult enough to worry about for some...I believe these companies need to somehow keep improving features... BUT, they really need to keep it VERY "USER FRIENDY" if they want to sell to the masses.....remember the more people understand what they are doing .....the more they will buy......

Yamaha is tickling our fancy with each Board they introduce. The T2 has "just enough" enhancements over the Tyros that it makes the Tyros owner (me anyway ) "consider" getting the T2. And I probably would get a T2 if it had 76 keys. I know I can sell my Tyros to offset the price of a T2 but since the T2 doesn't have 76 keys I see no reason to upgrade. Others who don't want or need 76 keys will obviously have a stronger reasoning and desire to upgrade.

I feel Yamaha does listen to us to an extent because they did give us the "Repeat Self To Fill" feature for the Tyros and also those that had the USB problems were given replacement USB circuit boards if they wanted without charge as long as their Tyros was under warranty. In fact from what I understand Yamaha will replace the faulty USB boards to those whose Tyros' are out of warranty as long as it can be verified that the USB is indeed faulty. How long that offer is good for I'm not sure.

OTOH for owners of the current Tyros, Yamaha could "easily" provide the software enhancements such as the Music Finder fixes on the T2 to Tyros owners as well. It would just take a simple software update. In fact all of the other OS enhancements on the T2 could theoretically be implemented as well to the current Tyros I would think.

But will Yamaha give us Tyros owners those enhancements that are on the T2? Quite simply I doubt it. Then there would be even less of a reason to upgrade to the T2. Yamaha is most likely thinking of their bottom line first and foremost and their customers have no choice but to be at their mercy. And sorry to say it but Yamaha has a tendency in my opinion to give up supporting a product once it has been either discontinued or a newer model is released, or even if a product hasn't been discontinued or a newer model hasn't been released. For example when was the last time the Tyros had an update and/or an enhancement feature was given to it? ... Well over a year ago to be precise. I do give Yamaha credit though for providing PSR 3000 owners the ability to update their keyboards but I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over the PSR 2000 fiasco. And although Yamaha did provide a "hardware" chip replacement for the PSR 2000 there were no improvements to speak of and it was a major hassle to have it replaced besides. And they went against their word too by saying it could be updated over the internet then suddenly changing their minds and making them without a Flash ROM chip. Oh well... yes it is water over the dam, but it makes me even more leery of Yamaha especially now that they have let the Tyros fall by the way side and essentially stopped supporting it in any way shape or form. And will that be the case with the Tyros2? Well if the Tyros is any indication then it most likely will be unfortunately.

So the question to me is one of priority.

Does it have what I want, or better yet what I require in a keyboard? Does it blow my current keyboard out of the water? To answer that question - not really in my opinion, but I give Yamaha kudos for developing the SAV technology, which btw is not a new technology but builds on existing technology in a new way.

Will it make me play better? Difinitely NOT. But with the SA voices some of the sounds will be a notch better (from what I've heard from the SA demos anyway), which is always a bonus.

But in the meantime I will bide my time and wait for the Board that meets my high and meticulous standards.

I may be in for a looonnnggggg wait btw..

Or possibly a short wait if Yamaha does indeed decide to make a reasonably light 76 key Tyros2.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-24-2005).]

Why cant yamaha make Arranger KB's with newupgradable OS so that we can just load them via USB from our PC's.......without having to buy a whole new KB with just a few new features....somthing like Ketron does with the SD-1 etc etc ...?

To get YAMAHA to listen, I think it's important to have a point person, a main person to sound off our demands. Or maybe several respected individuals that are respected by YAMAHA. People like George Kaye actually will affect YAMAHA keyboard designs. We all should appoint a point person maybe Scott Yee and then write that suggestions to George Kaye/others with Yammy connections in a formalized letter so that he can talk to the Yamaha guys to get them implemented. What do you guys think ?

Lets get this want list started and start designing our next keyboard !! Scott, what da' ya think ?

The idea of communicating with Yamaha has come up before, and it's pretty unrealistic. You can read more as to the reasons why in the thread about the Japanese culture clash . Even the US reps for Yamaha privately complain about the one-way communication that exists in Yamaha from the corporate office to it's employees, and the previous posts here about trying to get feature/bug fixes confirms much of that.

If you really want to leap ahead past the Tyros 2 I think that time and money could be better spent by looking into the products of smaller companies like Ketron (their MidJay is a good model of where arrangers could be going in the future), the latest models of the Neko from Open Labs for those who want to go into softsynths, and even the ideas that we've come up with for using laptops live in our FLR threads . We've definitely got to look beyond Yamaha for the future of arrangers.

Tyros 2 is not just a software update, it is a major hardware update as well, in fact if you have a close look at the chipsets used you will find hardly anything that relates to the Tyros 1.
As for getting Yamaha to listen outside of Japan, please bear in mind that there was heavy involvement from the UK on Tyros 2, (Both operational and voicing) which proves that Yamaha will listen, if you have something to say.

Bill

Oh Yeah baby agreed....ya gotta think outside the box
Jim hit the nail on the head
Tyros 2 will be old news soon with the ever changing world of Technology



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-25-2005).]

Looking at recent trends over the years, I would predict the following happening over the next few years.

Within the next 2 years, a replacement to the PSR3000. Obviously we will see a few super articulation voices appearing on this level of keyboard, probably aftertouch and most definitely more styles. I would expect to see Live! Drums making their first showcase on the PSR series. Maybe also 3 voice layers instead of 2?

As for the next Tyros... I am not sure yamaha will stick to the Tyros name, although they did with Motif... It could be something new altogether.
Rather than say what I'd like to see on the next big T, this is more what is likely to appear. First of all more voices without a doubt, I am expecting lots of new synth sounds and possibly a combined synth engine with sampler. The Piano will most likely be improved from Clavinova technology, and there will be more drum kits to choose from. We should see lots more super articulation voices, more megavoices and hopefully more choral sounds. There will be all the usual bells and whistles, but the styles will become more interactive, perhaps adjusting complexity and layers according to technique and foot controls. A breath controller would be an amazing feature (for the super articulation sounds), and the sampling will feature more standard memory and better editing features. Expect to see XLR sockets for mics, improvements to the vocal harmoniser, better XG voices and hopefully an option to stretch to 6 octaves!

As for what I would LIKE to see in the next Tyros.......

Reintroduction of PC keyboard connection, for entering text.
An extra octave or two on the keys!
More range on the octave up/down shift buttons
Warmer and more natural bass sounds
More drum kits with natural sounding random voices, also better response when played softly
New synth pads, choral pads and synth leads
More pianos, with features from the Clavinovas
Less reverb on styles!
Better style programming features, perhaps bundle software with T3 for this purpose!
Better quality colour screen
More acoustic guitar voices
Better sampling, multi samples, looping and compatibility with akai etc.
Improved speaker system

S.

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