I would love to read your thoughts, hopes, wants & needs in future offerings?

PSR 3100 ?

Seems to be the theme Yamaha has used for quite some time now I think. I would think it will probably be a T2 junior, much as the 3k is the Tyros 1 jr, the 2k was the 9k jr, 740 the 8k jr, etc etc..

If the next "junior" comes with a little better set of keys, I'm probably there as a replacement or backup to the PA80 for live work. Otherwise, I'm probably looking at buying someone's T1, or maybe even an SD1. No matter what they do with the new articulation voices, I think I'll still be ahead using vsti's and sample sets for lead voices anyway, so if that and some new styles are the biggest improvements in the new version, it probably won't matter all that much to me. Any of the last or present generations of mid to high end arrangers are probably good enough for me to use for live work, and they will all still fall short for me in the studio.

AJ

Unless it is a module or a 76 key keyboard I don’t think Yamaha (or any other arranger manufacturer) will get me to continue playing their silly and expensive games.

The game of the manufacturers releasing “new” keyboards with one or two minor changes to the previous model and asking an enormous amount of money for it. And on top of that we are not even getting what we want for that price. We tell them what we want and they ignore us.

I guess there will be those who don’t mind upgrading to a “new” keyboard even if it only has a few minor additional things.


I suspect however that the majority is fed up with the old way of doing things and is prepared to take a different root. If one already has a good hardware arranger like the Korg Pa1x, Roland G70, Ketron SD1 or Gem Genesys, using softsynths and or hardware module is the way to go.

I have no doubt that the Tyros 2 is a good keyboard for a first time arranger buyer. But if you already have an arranger that is and has been working good for you getting the Tyros 2 IMO only means that you are spending all that money for the 40 or so SAV and styles using those sounds.


Unless Yamaha or another keyboard manufacturer comes with something musically and technically revolutionary, software arrangers and synths and hardware module are the way to go.

To the Genesys,

let me tell you first that I hear your frustration and I understand where you coming from.
But here are a few things to consider:
You wrote:"And on top of that we are not even getting what we want for that price. We tell them what we want and they ignore us. "

Well who is "we"??
If you would say "I" or some of us it would be a more correct statement.
Let me explain: I'am upgrading from a 9000Pro to the T2 and Yamaha did actually implement all the features and sounds that I wanted. And I know this is true for a lot of other people on this and other forums.

I don't upgrade to every model that comes out, because as you correctly stated the changes might not justify the price. And my Pro still rocks; believe me.

People or customers come in at different times of the game. The T1 was good for some, but not good enough for me to upgrade. However when you skip a generation or two the difference is quite significant.

It's the same with computers, cars etc.
I don't buy every new generation that comes along.
When the right one hits the market, I'll buy.
If you look at the recent history of KB's(10 years or so), there has actually been a tremendous change in technology.
Yes I would like to have a car that would give me a 100 miles per gallon and believe me just like you know what you want in a KB and you know it's possible, this one is too but held back for whatever reason.
I want to be able to fast foreward through a comercial on the TV; the technology is there but it aint gonna happen soon.

Anyway as stated earlier when the T1 came out a lot of people were happy. I was happy for them but it wasn't for me.
Now T2 is here and again a lot of people are happy. Just read this and other forums. There is no "we" in that. Everybody has different wants and needs.
Nobody forces you to buy a new KB for whatever price, as nobody forced me to buy a T1. And as said earlier: I didn't

I do believe though that at some point in the near future it will be possible to customize your KB to a certain extend just like we do somewhat with our PC programs.

Til then I do hope that something will come along for you in due time.

And of course there are some here that buy every generation that comes along for the latest thrill or so. In order to justify that, there has to be something wrong with the current model.

I think that ALL top models right now in the hands of a musician can make some darn good music and will do so for a long time if would concentrate more on that.

Remember everybody has different needs and wants that can't all be implemented at once.

I hope this gives a little food for thought.
Meantime I'm happily awaiting my T2 [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Eric


[This message has been edited by Eric, B (edited 10-23-2005).]

"We tell them what we want and they ignore us" ??

Who is 'us' ?
I get the impression some of 'us' think themselves to represent all musicians on earth

It's obvious almost everyone here realizes the SAV truly IS revolutionary and some people persist in telling "Oh.... it's nothing!" and already ask : "What is NEXT?" .

Pretty funny how these guys try to ignore the Tyros2..... by telling: "Well, my PSRxxxx does the same!" or "There is another way to go !" ......

I think I'm not a 'first time arranger buyer' because I owned KN2000, KN3000, KN5000, X1, SD1, G70 , PA1XPRO and Tyros1. For me the last one beats ALL others I owned before.

Wednesday I hope to get my T2 and can feel the power of this beast.

Please try to get a chance to play one before telling your 'findings' based on ...nothing.

BTW

Here is a little known fact: As stated in an earlier discussion here at Synth Zone: Yamaha sales are only 5% of the world sales.
The rest goes pretty much to Europe.

It has been said many times that Yamaha and other manufactures don't care or listen.
However here is the little known fact:
After the Psr-9000 was released 5 representatives from Yamaha Japan went to Germany (one of the biggest KB sellers. Membership on the Yamaha forum alone is in the thousands) to ask members of the german Yamaha forum what they want/need.

The Tyros was the answer: No speakers (the 9000 was darn heavey ), megavoices, better guitar voices, better screen (color), light up buttons, so you know were you are in a registration etc, better music finder etc...

A lot of the demands were implemented.
Also a lot of the German Tyros players are proffesional.
So you see, they did listen.

Again I understand your frustration, but with only 5% of US players, priorities are certainly different.

Eric

Well said Roel.

Eric

Hi Roel and Eric
I guess I should have defined the use of the terms “we” and “us”.

The “we” and “us” was referring to the keyboard consumers with purchasing power who were asking for along with other features, 76 keys and or a module, better integration of arranger and workstation functions on one keyboard and computer editing software for the keyboard.

I do understand that everybody has different needs and wants that can't all be implemented at once.
However, if keyboard manufacturers are not careful, they could begin to loose customers to software solutions if they keep making these half steps with their hardware arrangers and other keyboards.

I do understand that most people in general (my self included), usually would want the latest and greatest thing on the market if we did not have to put money in to the equation.

Unfortunately, with some persons, the purchase of a “new” keyboard, a justification (cost – benefit analysis) has to be done.

Again I don’t have a problem with the Tyros 2. I think Yamaha has exhalent marketing skills in hyping a product. Keeping most of their Tyros 1 fans happy is a very good strategy. However, I still do not feel that for a relatively satisfied owner of a flag ship arranger the Tyros 2 would be a wise choice at this time. I agree that the 40 or so SAV are revolutionary (or at least took realism of voices to another level) but that’s the only significant thing IMO you are getting extra with the Tyros 2 when compared with the other flagship arrangers from the other manufacturers.


Again that is not to put the Tyros 2 down. It would be a good board for existing Tyros 1 fans and for some one who does not currently have a flagship arranger or for some one who has the money to spend.

Would I like to own a Tyros 2? Of course!! However money has to come in to play and as such a business justification has to be done.

I think the manufacturer to look out for to come with a truly revolutionary product is Ketron. They have not released a flagship arranger keyboard for a good amount of years. If they are doing their research and viewing some of the forums, they would try and capitalize on an emerging market that wants a light 76 key keyboard, better integration of arranger and workstation functions on one keyboard and computer editing software for the keyboard. I know mediastation is doing something like that but marketing is not there right now.

These are just my opinions which are a fusion of different ideas from different forum threads.


BTW My “findings based on ...nothing” are the same “findings” that the first Tyros 2 purchasers based their decision to by the Tyros 2 with out trying it in person.

Hi Donny,

to you question: T2 is Released, But What do you think is "NEXT"

Answer: play the darn thing and have fun

Eric

To the Genesys,
I guess I was the first Dutchie that ordered the T2 a couple of months ago after I had a long, very interesting conversation with a dutch Yamaha rep.
He explained all the new features in detail and I got exited at that very moment.
He also answered my/our questions about 6 octaves, key-size...etc.

So, my ordering/purchase was not based on nothing :

I owned Tyros1, I love it! (styles/ease of use, sounds, low weight etc)

I knew in detail what was coming with Tyros2.

My trust in Yamaha (reps)/ my dealer.

I knew my (very nice) price

I was allowed to see some early demo's

Everybody is free to like- or dislike brands/products but please stop complaining about 'dirty commercial games', plastic housing, only 5 octaves, missing 16-track multitrack recorder with full editing features, XLR inputs, phantom power, missing speakers ...