I think the response isn't about simply weight-watchers, but it comes from hearing those that DO choose lightweight keyboards CLAIM that it comes with no penalty... Basically, as if to say that those of us that DO appreciate a good 76 note keybed, high build quality and TOTL features have no idea what we are talking about...

I am the first to say that, if you need light weight, for WHATEVER reason, go ahead, best of luck, mate! I am pretty sure that by the time I get into my sixties (got another ten to go!), I may have to use lightweight equipment myself. But there is no way I will try to tell anyone else that, just because it is MY choice, it MUST be the best way! I will look enviously at other player's rigs, with nice big actions, and wish I could still lug one around

There is a reason that you don't see the majority of pros on TV or in Vegas, etc., playing one 61 note ultra-light workstation. It is NOT because they can afford to play anything they want to, it is because they need a keyboard they can play ANYTHING on, from full piano parts, to multiple splits and run the whole show with midi. 88's are the norm, then 76's, and most of the time you see a 61, it is because they have more than one keyboard in the rig (which kind of defeats the whole point)

Now SOME of them get cartage (but fewer than you would expect), but to most pros, the one area they CAN'T cut corners on is their rig. If they get a call for a piano part, they daren't show up with a 61, no matter HOW good the sound.

My arranger gets used for everything from standard arranger gigs, all the way up to full band calls and session work. It replaces two keyboards and a module or two (for full band gigs), and so is MUCH lighter than previous full band rigs. It replaces, from WAY back in the day, a van full of Hammonds, Rhodes's, Wurli's, Yamaha's and the like.

But, apart from the B3 section (and what IS a reasonable replacement for one of those to a diehard Hammond fan? ), it performs as well as all the other stuff, at a fraction of the weight. But to my ears and fingers, this is the lightest it CAN go at the current time without me noticing a REAL drop-off in quality.

I have always said, as soon as they bring something out BETTER that is lighter, I will get it in a flash. As long as it doesn't bounce around while I play it because it is TOO light! But the MINUTE it involves any compromise with the key-action or sound, sorry, got to pass...

Until I'm too feeble to move it around...

The only statement I can make, which I sincerely believe is relevent, is Don't Get Old. When I was young that PSR-5700 seemed fairly light, and hefting that 107-pound amp from the van to the refrigerator dolly was just part of a days work. And, those 105-pound speakers, what the hell, they sounded good. When you reach the ripe old age of 67 and perform one to two jobs daily, plus drive 40 to 75 miles between jobs in grid-lock traffic, lighter keyboards, regardless of the number of keys, is much better. In fact, anyone that hauls heavier equipment around, just because he or she thinks is better, is an idiot. If you sincerely believe that lugging that heavier crap around makes you a better performer/musician/entertainer you're living in the dark ages. Nobody gives a damned if your keyboard has 76 keys, 61 keys, 88 keys, of 200 keys. Your audiences could care less if your speakers are 10-inch, 15-inch, 20-inch or 36-inch--they just want to be entertained. This entire topic is utterly ridiculous. What the hell am I doing here? I'm going to mix up a good margaretta, prop my feet up, hope for good weather and go sailing.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

But what if the heavier equipment IS better? I mean, no-one is playing balsa wood pianos (but they gotta be lighter!).

Not ALL heavy gear is better, but not ALL lighter equipment is either...

Liberace could have entertained a crowd on a kazoo. This, I guess, makes him a moron for using a piano? The list of top pros that use 88 key equipment is pretty much ALL of them. Idiots all, apparently.

Some of us play for the people that CAN tell the difference. Others, it seems, prefer an audience that CAN'T. You are welcome to them They will soon be all that is left, once you show an audience that you think they don't give a damn about anything but 'entertainment'. Better get your chicken hat warmed up!

Age and health, as I said, were VERY valid reasons for using less than the best because it is lighter. I think you just proved my point. Now, you kids.... GET OFF MY LAWN

Diki, don't go overboard on this topic. You yourself say that if you can get a better and lighter keyboard you'd buy it. That's what we're all saying. BUT, there soetimes have to be choices and compromises.

For years I did the Hammond/Leslie thing too, but it was too heavy for ME. Then I kept the Leslie and tried other keyboards and soon the Leslie was gone too - weight? My 3-way Toas gave way to two-way Mackies. My PC88 became an XP50 - always striving for something better and lighter. I dropped my DC5 and VR760 for one G70 - always striving.

Weight can be and is an issue for many. Let it be an issue for THEM. The original complaint was about the Tyros2 - not heavy but awkward. Gee, what are we arguing and getting hot under the collar about? If someone wants to take a B3 and a 122 to three jobs a day let them do it. If someone else wants to take a PSR E403 and a mini-amp to one job a month, let them do it.

Don't worry, be happy

No, cassp, this is what Gary is saying..



It's not that we mind lugging the extra weight, it's that we mind being called idiots for doing so, when, to all but the blind and close-minded, there IS an appreciable difference between mid-line and TOTL equipment.

It's probably the same reaction Gary would have if someone heckled him for hauling around that PSR and speakers, when he could have entertained just as well with a Melodica! It IS, after all, much lighter... The audience doesn't give a damn if it has 61 keys or 15... Do they?

I am not lugging around heavier equipment because I THINK it makes me sound better. I am hauling it around because I KNOW it makes me sound better. Excuse me for wanting that....

How right you are, Gary.

Ian

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Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.

I'm begining to think a lot of people prefer to argue about keyboard brand/model preferences (my kb's better than yours), etc, because they find it easier than actually dedicating the work & time required to improve their kb chops & arranger playing skills. If you own a relatively current keyboard now, simply appreciate what you got and share actual arranger 'music making' tips which benefit all arranger players. You'll be amazed how much keyboard improvement you'll notice if the amount of time spent improving one's keyboard skills replaces the time spent posting on this forum promoting the mine's better than yours attitudes. I think it far more productive to share (tips/tricks) on improving arranger keyboard playing technique and also hearing more actual 'arranger keyboard' mode music performed here.

That said, I definitely appreciate having a light compact keyboard to afford convenient gig transport.

- Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 08-22-2007).]

DITTO!

Gary

Yeah, but does it rock ?? What about longevity ? Will it hold up to 2 or 3 roadies ? Can it be restored? Or is it a throw away ?

Interestingly enough, I just restored my 1956 C3 (sn 60786)and 74 147. IT (they) were on the road from the time I bought them in the spring of 1974 until 1986. Prior to that the organ was in a church since built.

Moved it totally by myself for 2 years. Not a problem. Never, ever stopped once. I did have to replace the lower rotor belt, once. House entertainer in the same place for the better part of 4 years - Mostly, 7 nights a week. Never failed to start during all those years. Always rocked. I have both of them in my living room now and they are both even more atonishingly beautiful now than the day they were made. And, play and sound amazing. Imagine that at 51 years old (the organ, not me) I'm older. Wife won't let me move it to the studio. She makes me use the XK3 there.

I can't imagine I'll be able to do the same with my Tyros in about 33 years. But who know's ?

Danny

PS: I working on the Rhodes now.



[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 08-22-2007).]

Can't say I miss my B3 and Leslies (or my Rhodes)...but some people love retro gear like some people like old cars...as the saying goes "they don't make 'em like they used to".

Then again, sometimes that's a good thing.


Ian


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Common misconception...size and weight equal quality and performance. Don't be fooled.