Yes, the OTS settings are actually stored with the STYLE itself. They are also programmable, but once you change the settings you have to then save and call the newly created USER style up instead. That defeats the purpose & convenience of using PRESET styles.




True, but how about when it comes time to change the preset style selection when going to the next song? Before you can even select another Style, you have to REMEBER to:

1) Press the FREEZE button again to release the current voice

2) Select another PRESET Style with OTS.

2) Press one of the newly selected style's OTS buttons (1-4).

3) Press the LEFT Part button to turn it "on".

4) Press the Freeze Button yet AGAIN to prevent the Left part from shutting off when merely switching OTS (1-4) selections.

Miss one step and it won't work. It's really absurd to have go thru all these steps (and in that exact order) just to utilize the LEFT hand OTS voice programmed into Preset Styles.

Scott

Why not just set everything up in a registration, style, right voice, right layer, left voice, tempo, variation, synch start, intro, etc.

Now merely select the registration, which has all the information stored within, press Freeze, press any key and begin playing. As the song is ending, press Freeze again and you're ready to select the next registration, MFD, midi file, etc. Not a lot of button pushing, but of course, this would depend on how you set up your registrations.

Gary

Hi Gar ... I of course realize that you could do this, but why have go thru all this rigormarole just to play 'on the fly' from PRESET styles? If Yamaha would have just stored their LEFT voice settings where they SHOULD have be in the FIRST place: with all the 'other' Voices (Main, Layer, Rt1, Rt2, etc) in the OTS memory contents "VOICE" group, like they SHOULD have, this problem could have been totally avoided. Go figure.

Scott

Ironically, this was how it was done with the PSR-5700 and PSR-740. They switched to the current system with the 2000. Sometimes I wonder what the design folks had on their minds when they came up with some of these so called improvements. Just gotta' live with em' till the next one comes out--then it's back to learning another new system.

Cheers,

Gary

Yep, this sounds hauntingly familiar to the suddenly missing "Fill to Self" feature on the Tyros. When I first reported this to Yamaha, rather than acknowledging the problem, they adamently insisted the ommision was a conscious 'design change' decision on their part. It was only after many months of repeated hounding that Yamaha finally acknowledged bug, and included it again on the Tyros via OS update.

I'm now beginning to wonder if the same thing may be going on here with Yamaha's sudden change (starting with the PSR2000) of storing the LEFT voice settings with the' "STYLE" Group rather than "VOICE" Group, as I can think of NO practical benefit (from an arranger keyboard players standpoint) for Yamaha to have intentionally implemented this as a 'design change' improvement.

I would have expected Yamaha should have caught this bug by now, especially after 4 subsequent new model releases since this initially took place on the PSR2000: PSR2100, Tyros, and PSR3000. Perhaps Yamaha just thought we wouldn't notice?!

It's only because I finally discovered (by sheer luck & some ingenuity) a workaround solution for freely selecting preset styles without changing the LEFT voice that this is no longer a 'life & death' issue for me, but Yamaha definitely needs to again, store LEFT VOICE settings with all the other voices (RT1 (Main), RT2 (Layer, and RT3) in the VOICE 'Memory Contents' Group, and hopefully implement this with Tyros II. At this point I guess it's just 'wait and see'.

Scott

Scott. You should have known by now that when Yammy put a good feature on a board....They think...Ha!!! that was a good feature we added on the previous model...let's leave it off the next new model.
They have done this numerous times over their keyboard ranges.

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 01-29-2005).]

On my Tyros, I set the Left voice to Live Strings way back when I got it. For some reason, it always stays on Live Strings no matter what preset style I select. Even if I load a style from disk, the left voice remains Live Strings. And if I have turned the Left voice on, it remains on no matter what style I choose, with or without OTS activated. Isn't this what you want the Tyros to do, Scott? If so, it is possible. I don't remember exactly how I set it up this way. I do always leave the Freeze button on.

Tom G.

Hi Tom, Wow, I think you just helped me discover "why" Yamaha may have chose to store the LEFT VOICE with the STYLE parameters instead of with the other VOICE parameters now. Perhaps there was a Yamaha method to the madness afterall.

Yep, the LEFT VOICE which always plays after the ACMP button is selected, following inital keyboard boot-up is: "Live Strings". Unfortunately, after you select a style and then START up the auto accomp, the LEFT PART selection button light goes out and the LEFT VOICE is no longer heard.

On the other hand, if you now re-activate the LEFT PART selection button light, select a VOICE for the LEFT PART, and then activate the FREEZE button (with Freeze content's: STYLE checkbox marked), you'll then be able to freely select ANY style on the keyboard and switch between registration (1-8) and OTS (1-4) buttons, while retaining the LEFT VOICE selection to the voice initially selected.

Storing the LEFT VOICE selection with the style itself, and not with the other voices (RT1, RT2, Main, Layer) is what provides the ability to freeze 'only the left voice' in this situation. Even so, I personally prefer to setup my default LEFT VOICE selection along with my startup default 'registration file' settings (vocal harmony type, split point, chord recognition type, etc) to be all automatically called up by the press of a SINGLE button right after startup. The initial Registration setup configurqation programing may take little time, but once programmed, you never have to think about it again: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/002610.html

Unfortunately,the above doesn't solve the nagging problem of the OTS preset LEFT VOICE Part selection automatically turning off when selecting an OTS button (1-4). Yes, you can utilize the freeze button to retain the OTS LEFT VOICE selection while that specific Style is selected, but if you select ANOTHER style, you have to: de-select the freeze button, select the new style, press an OTS button (1-4), press the LEFT PART button again, and then activate the freeze button (yet again). I can only hope Yamaha will finally address & correct this in Tyros II.

Tom, thanks again for pointing to the possible explanation why Yamaha chose to store the LEFT VOICE settings with the Style settings.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 01-30-2005).]

I think this is actually regarded as a 'feature' instead of a 'bug' per se.

Yamaha is in my estimation giving more control to the User when using any given Preset Style.

They're 'all' off so at least it's was done on a consistent basis.

When using the OTS link the Left part Voices are utilized, i.e. a Left part Voice bank is loaded, although it is left in the off position. Simply pressing the Left Part panel button will enable it.

Sometimes the Left Voice may not always be needed when playing a song using a Style. When a person is in any one of the given Variations within the Style, e.g. variation "B" etc. of A thru D, one can then enable the Left voice if he or she chooses by simply pressing the Left Voice panel button.

Granted, if a person changes to a different Variation within a Style the Left part Voice is once again disabled. But simply using the Freeze button as Gary mentioned will keep the Left Voice ON regardless of switching between variations.

This gives the User more control over the Style than for Yamaha to have enabled the Left part Voice(s) of the Preset Styles from the get-go on each and every Style in my opinion. >> You turn it ON when you want to, not the other way around where you turn it off when you don't want to, i.e. reaching up to turn it off when you didn't necessarily want it on in the first place. Doing that repeatedly could lead to aggravation needless to say.

In the case of switching to another Style either during a song or when starting a new song, simply turning off the Freeze function would allow the new Style to load its own new Left part Preset Voice (if any). You could then re-enable the Left part Voice and the Freeze function if you choose, to keep the Left part Voice always ON during the new song, etc. if you want it to be. If you switch between Styles "during" an existing song: then if you had left the Freeze button ON, the Left part Voice before you switched Styles would still be used and, if the Left part Voice panel button was ON on your Tyros at the time, it would still be active when you switched Styles of course.

Of course we all know - those who own a Tyros anyway , is if you set everything up in a Registration beforehand when using a Style for using with a song etc., then all your settings are pre-stored and called up when a person presses any of the 1-8 Registration panel buttons. Thus simplifying things even further. >> Once you get through the actual Registration setting up process that is.

Best regards,
Mike

Guys, its not a "design flaw" and its not a conspiracy. And those of us who take the time to address your questions on the forums, aren't busily trying to figure out ways to cover up for the engineering department. They do make mistakes sometimes, and life goes on. This time it was a design decision. Think about it, can you make a custom style and have the L voice on within a given OTS? Then, so can we with the presets. This is not part of the design of the instrument so much as a design of the content. It's like saying wouldn't this voice be better with a little less vibrato? So the decision was made to leave it always off. Some people prefer it off. What criteria should we use to decide which ones have it on and which off? Let's hear from everyone who uses OTS.

Yamaha loves your feedback. If we give you a response you dont like or disagree with you, it's not because we're covering up, it's because we have a different perspective.

Steve