Hey man, the title o' dis thread be: "Casio's 32 Note Poly (vs) Yamaha's 32 Note Poly." squeak_D wanted to know if there was a "definitive" answer as to whether Yamaha's DGX, and YPG series have a poly drop down to 16 (or 10) notes due to the size of the voice, like the Privias have.

I think there is a definitive answer, and I think I gave it! The answer is no -- the YPG's do not drop to less than 32 notes of polyphony. There is also a 16 channel limit for MIDI files, but that's s different issue. The 16 channel limit also applies to the Privias (with the 10 note polyphony limit applying simultaneously).

So I think there's a real, substantial, functional difference between the Privias and the YPG-625 for people like me, who use more than two fingers at a time, fergawdsake.

Esh, there is too a one-size-fits-all keyboard/workstation/arranger. It's called a piano. You supply paper and pencil. Worked for Beethoven!

Rick

hey rick, i have to disagree with you..the polyphony will drop if a particular "voice" uses more thn one sample,its the way synths have always worked, one oscillator = one voice (nowadays read "sample" for the word oscillator)...for example, usually the primo pianos are at least a couple of samples, so they can drop below the 32 notes (ie 16), HOWEVER, what most synth manufacturers do these days,and some of the algorithms they use are very complex and clever, with their samples is use velocity switching so that dropouts are nowwhere near as noticeable...i would be prepared to say if you used a voice that has more than 1 sample used, and could hit 17 notes at the same time with the same velocity you would get a drop out, this is assuming the voice creator has all the samples set to the same velocities (and just holding the sustain pedal and playing a note 17 times does not always work either for the same reason)...
the reason yammi's is not as noticeable as the casio is better voice allocation algorithms,but it still happens...

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 07-19-2006).]

Sorry, but I have a YPG-625, and I can count to 32.

I understand all you say, but it simply doesn't apply in this case. I don't know how many literal "samples" Yamaha takes to get stereo sounds, and neither do you. It's a proprietary detail of their AWM system.

With other keyboards, some sounds use more than one voice of polyphony, and the manufacturer lists the number of voices used in the voice list. There is no such entry in the DGX/YPG voice list for the simple reason that the answer, in every case, is one (1).

Or, hey, maybe every sound uses up two voices, but a DGX/YPG actually has 64 polyphony. Since every sound is stereo, it doesn't really matter, does it? They can define their terms however they like.

From the Yamaha web site: "What's polyphony, you ask? Simply put, polyphony is how many notes a keyboard can reproduce simultaneously. The DGX-505 has 32-note polyphony allowing you to play intricate arrangements and dense musical passages." Note they say "notes" not samples.

None of which really matters. What matters is that I have a YPG-625, and I can count to 32.

R.

nothing to do with proprietary anythng...its simply how synthesis works, as i said in the old days the oscillator produced a tone (saw, square, triangle) ad then through subtractive synthesis you created your sound...one oscillator created one sound, or a monophonic keyboard, then they started installing more oscillators as technology increased...these days ONE sample (the equivalentof ONE oscillator) is assigned to ONE sound ( the stereo doe not come into it) stereo simply means they have allocated 2 sounds split over the left/ right fields,it still uses 2 voices to produce the sound...you don't have to believe me just look at your yamaha manuals, although perhaps the home arranger keyboard manuals dont go into the detail on how the sounds are allocated, as do the synth (Motif etc) ones...just ask your yamaha techie, they'll tell you the same thing...its no big proprietary secret...the voice allocation algorithms for each manufacturer ARE though..
and yes, i can count to 32 as well

miden, you are absolutely correct. I guess I can't count to 32.

I was hearing some things with the pedal that made me think the polyphony was 32 while playing stereo piano sounds. Then I thought "maybe that's not an accurate way to go about this," so I got some hard cover books and an old picture frame. With the picture frame, I can play 24 white keys at the same time.

Stereo pianos (Voices #1, #2 and #3): If I play and hold down a big Db, then play and release 24 picture-frame notes, the Db is no longer playing. It doesn't matter which 24 notes I play with the picture frame.

Also, if I play 10 "book" notes at a time, followed by 10 more book notes, then hold down one of the 20 notes with my finger before releasing the other 19, the finger note may not be playing. That indicates it stopped playing when the second group of 10 notes started. The notes that cut out usually seem to be the top four notes out of the first group of 10.

Mono piano (the first two XG grand pianos, voices #140 & #141): Now if I play and hold down a Db, then play and release 24 picture-frame notes, the Db is still playing. And with the two book test, I can't find any notes that cut out. So I guess this has the true 32 note polyphony.

Piano/strings XG combination (voice #142): Back to 16 note polyphony. Same test results as for stereo pianos.

Stereo piano/strings combo (voice #1 dualed with string ensemble): 8 note polyphony. By standing the book on end I can play 7 or 8 white keys at a time, depending on how I place it.

If I play a Db, then play and release 7 book notes, the Db is still playing. If I play the Db then play and release 8 book notes, Db always cuts out.

I'm sorry I made negative comments about the new Privia PX-575R. It looks like a very exciting instrument! I like the 120 user tones. My YPG-625 doesn't have any synth functions. I hope the speakers turn out to be better than the PX-555R.

Don't know what's going on with the pedal on the YPG-625. Might take another month of tests to figure that out.

Rick

Rick,
Actually, I think Yamaha cheats at us by not providing the "Voice-polyphony used" table in the manual. Like you I was mislead to think that the keyboard was 32 poly. It was a very bad surprise to discover the truth post-factum.

George.

Good point George. This is something that bothers me about Yamaha. If I remember correctly even my MO8's manual doesn't list the poly of each voice--when looking at the voice data list. If it's somewhere else I clearly missed it

I don't think Yammie realizes how GREATLY helpful that info is. My roland RS-70's manual list the poly for each voice. I use it all the time when sequencing. It helps me reduce dropped notes if I can see what the poly of a voice is before I record with it.

Squeak

Squeak

Out of curiosity I'd like to ask you a question. Do you know how much polyphony do the mega voices on your Mo8 use?

George

[This message has been edited by George V (edited 07-26-2006).]

Don't know off the top of my head but I can probably find out. I'll get back to ya.

Squeak

George, Email me. There's not one listed for you.

Squeak