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#146447 - 10/01/05 02:20 PM
Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
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Junior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 15
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Thanks! You too! I think it's interesting how much a good drum sound means in a keyboard. The Korg PA1/X is a good example. Often people mean the kick drum and the snare drum when they are talking about the drum sound. The hi-hat, rides, toms and cymbals are often not as much in focus and people easily forget that a drum kit really should have many good sounds for each drum, not only one, and the whole kit should be good sounding. One problem with the drums in the Yamaha Tyros is that while the drum samples are pretty realistic and detailed the sounds are rather dead due to the very limited velocity envelope. You can hear different samples triggered at different velocities, but the number of layers are very few and the sound varies very much between the layers, hence resulting in a very flat and unrealistic sound. What I noticed about the Power Kit in the new Tyros 2 was that the velocity envelope was much bigger hence resulting in a much wider dynamic range which made the drums less flat sounding. I thought it was much much better sounding! I also think that the Yamaha Tyros (1) lack some in the hi-freq drum sounds, especially the cymbal sounds that I think are rather "cheesy". Especially the hi-hat has to respond very aggressively sound wise on different velocity levels in order for the rhythm to sound natural, that's not the case with the Tyros (1). When a drummer hits the snare he also usually hits the hi-hat a little harder because of the tensions between coordinating the arms/hands. This in turn makes the rhythm more punchy. Details like these are very important when it comes to the rhythm element since so much of the sound is velocity driven. If the velocity envelope is very controlled and tight you get bored with the rhythm element, hence you get bored with the whole song. This is why I prefer real drums instead of keyboard sounds when recording, because I think it's very time consuming trying to get keyboard drums sound enough interesting. But the power kit in the Tyros 2 was much better, so I think the keyboard manufacturers are heading in the right direction. I'm sure this is only the beginning. Some virtual instruments can handle many layers already, so being able to record very "natural" sounding keyboard and synth productions is soon not a problem anymore. In the keyboard world I think the rhythm element is the thing that creates the biggest differences between the sound of different keyboardists. Many are using a drum machine to replace the cheap sounding kits in the main keyboard and that's a very popular approach in the professional keyboard world. But with keyboards like the Tyros series it becomes kind of silly having to use an external drum machine because when buying a keyboard in that price range I think a good drum sound is a basic need. Take a listen to the drums in the this song, "Dock of the Bay" played by Dwight Sills. You might think it sounds rather "normal", but even though it is a kind of laid-back sound it makes the song very very groovy! Pay attention to the hi-hat. Instinctively you don't focus much on the drums in this song, because it grooves so well, but when you take a closer listen the drummer is aggressive on the hi-hat velocity. This is what most keyboards lack. They sound realistic in themselves but dead in a groove, especially in the built-in styles. Much of the keyboard drum cheesyness is enhanced due to this. Dwight Sills - Dock of The Bay
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#146450 - 10/01/05 03:03 PM
Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
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Yes, I am almost certain that it was called "8 beat 5 R&B". Listening to your song better, I think that what really sets the groove is the bass, more than the hi-hat, and this leads me to touch a sore point of many arrangers, including the Tyros: the bass is overly quantized and does not swing or groove at all! Maybe the Korg PA1X-pro is different under this regard, and even the styles are longer (they last 8 beats in average, vs. 4 for the Tyros, thus allowing for a greater variability).
[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 10-01-2005).]
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.
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#146452 - 10/01/05 03:03 PM
Re: More great Tyros2 demos !
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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VoiceofSpace, I totally agree with you. Sometimes I feel that keyboard makers forget how important drums are. You could have a style for example that has great bass, piano, and other non percussive instruments, and those parts sound really good, but the drums always seem to lack punch. Something as simple as a really crappy snare can throw off the feel entirely to a song.
That's also been my BIGGEST gripe with so many arrangers. Even though some may have halfway decent drum samples, they always sound pre-programed and lack flavor or "life". It's the same way with pre-recorded bass lines in an arranger keyboard. They just don't have the level of "umph" in certain styles where it's needed to carry that particular style. I think these two tracks in a style alone (are dead give-a-ways to whether a song has been done on an arranger keyboard)
All my drum tracks are done with external gear. I use a Boss DR-3 and sometimes my Zoom MRT-3 for my drum tracks. The Boss has so much realism to the patterns, not to mention the "kits" just "kick ass" in my opinion compared to some arrangers.
Squeak
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-01-2005).]
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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