Well, I found yet another reason to dislike Yamaha. I bought a PLG150-DR drum expansion card to use with my 9000 Pro thanks to some of the discussions we've had here. I realized that this card had the potential to improve my drum sounds, give me better editing control over the drums (includes an OPT editor), and free up polyphony on my keyboard when I'm playing. First, the drums of the PLG150-DR do sound very good - they have longer samples on the cymbals and generally sound clearer overall than the Live! drums of the 9000 Pro. The rest of the story is best summed up in a note I sent to their support department:
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To Yamaha Support:

I just bought a new PLG150-DR drum expansion card to go with my 9000 Pro keyboard. I had downloaded the owner's manual for the PLG150-DR before buying it and read on Page 15 that you could assign the Part number if you are using an XG-Plug-In System compatible "mother" device, which the 9000 Pro is. Unfortunately, now that I bought and installed the board I find that is not the case: I cannot set the Part number (i.e.: midi channel) for the PLG150-DR. Under the Native Parameters page there are no settings available at all. I am using OS 2.04 on my 9000 Pro and I'm pretty certain I have not overlooked anything. It appears that the only way I could possibly assign a midi channel to the PLG150-DR would be if I assigned the card to one of my R-1, R-2 or R-3 voices - which I am not willing to do because I need those for live playing of keyboard parts rather than drum parts.

First, the manual for the PLG150-DR doesn't say anything at all about the 9000 Pro and what limitations you'll have if you try to use the PLG150-DR with it. There is no reason why you couldn't have a page that lists all Yamaha instruments that the card can be installed in and what features you can or can't expect. Not being able to set the midi channel of this card is a ridiculous limitation that means I can't use it for midifile playback or accompaniment... but I could only learn this info by buying your card and installing it in my keyboard. Dealers who sell this card don't allow returns either.

However, since the 9000 Pro is part of the XG Plug-in family, it seems to me that the main reason I can't define a midi channel for the PLG150-DR with my 9000 Pro is because the keyboard's OS needs a slight update/modification to allow it to. So I am requesting that you please see if this is possible and I'd appreciate an answer so I'll know if this card belongs on eBay rather than in my instrument. I will share whatever information I get with other 9000 Pro users on the web so they will have better information than I did before making their purchases.
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Note: one further clarification not included above: the PLG150-DR by default is set to midi channel 1. So the only apparent way I could use it with my 9000 Pro currently would be to alter all of my midi files (several hundred) and my accompaniment settings so the drums would be on channel 1 rather than channel 10. I'm more likely to ditch the card than do that.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 06-18-2003).]

Hi Jim (the Pro). A well composed letter to Yamaha explaining your very 'understandable' frustration. I hope that Yamaha responds by coming out with a 9000pro OS update adding essential midi channel assignment support for the PLG150-DR, as it indeed sounds like a very useful drum percussion card. Good luck and please keep us posted. - Scott

Yamaha's response:
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Our pro studio type keyboards like the Motif simply have 16 Internal Parts and 3 Plug-in Parts, and you can assign any MIDI Channel to any Part. But the 9000PRO is a bit of a different beast, because even though it is at the top of the PSR line, it is an auto accompaniment keyboard designed for the home user with emphasis on ease -of-use. So instead of using the "Part" and "MIDI Channel" screens of the Motif (which tend to confuse and scare off PSR users), they made it so you just choose one of the sections (R1,2,3,L) for the Plug-in Board Part. If you press the [MIDI] button, select 'All Parts', press the [8v] button, set either R1,2,3,or L section to a desired MIDI Channel, the PLG150DR Board will respond if it is selected for that section. It is therefore assignable to any MIDI Channel, but you are correct in that it has to be via one of the R1,2,3, or L sections. However, this was part of the design and is not a bug. The operating system does not (recognize) the part type settings as some of our other keyboards and because of that could not be modified to do so. Hope this helps.

YCA Support
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If there was any doubt at all that Yamaha does not consider arranger keyboards to be professional-use keyboards, it should be laid to rest now. I feel like I've been patted on the head and told not to worry about unnecessary things like setting MIDI channels that might scare me...

What a disappointment! The 9000 Pro is a PSR! PSR is left off the name deliberately. If you go to the Yamaha website, the Tyros and 9kPro are listed separately from the PSR line. The "Pro" is a home keyboard? I though the advertisements emphasized its stageworthiness. A big oversight if the drum card can't be set to channel 10. Can't shake that arranger stigma. At least Yamaha does not skimp on the built-in sounds.

To be honest, I would be surprised if the drum expansion board did work properly with the 9000 pro. After all the 9000 pro accepts voice expansion cards, which you would assume enhance the keyboard voices of the instrument. I would have first checked with someone with the knowhow in Yamaha as to the extent of functionality of this card when playing it live from the 9000 pro, since again I assume the 9000 pro has limited control over new cards. Using a PC with the 9000 pro and midi is another question, here I would expect you to have fuller control over this card and access the sounds you require. It is possible maybe that you could direct percussion via midi back into the pro to trigger the card, but I'm assuming that this isnt the case?
This is obviously a very new expansion card, something I havent heard of before but it sounds quite nice. If you succeed in getting it to perform from the pro, I'd like to hear some samples from it if its possible... though it sounds as though you can only play it from the keyboard am I right?

Simon


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Pro,

From what I've been reading on this forum over the past year or so, it seemed to me the using midi files by a professional musician was verboten, that only a rank amateur would stoop so low as to resort to midi files. My question to you is: Is it acceptable, professional-wise, to use midi backing tracks when playing? I use midi backing tracks and, because of your years as a professional musican, value your input and insight regarding this item. Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

Peter

Originally posted by ThePro:

"If there was any doubt at all that Yamaha does not consider arranger keyboards to be professional-use keyboards, it should be laid to rest now. I feel like I've been patted on the head and told not to worry about unnecessary things like setting MIDI channels that might scare me..."

Sad but true. The 9000Pro carries the connotation of a "Professional" Keyboard hence the word 9000"Pro"fessional and Yamaha built the Keyboard with that in mind hoping to attract the Professional Musician. For the Tech person to give an answer like that just goes to show you that they Market a Keyboard one way but in actuality when the rubber meets the road the Keyboard falls short, "even by their own admission", albeit unbeknownst to the Musician who thinks he or she purchased a 'true' Professional grade Keyboard, having trusted Yamaha's spiel about the 9000Pro.

Yamaha should either "Fish or cut Bait" as they say. In other words: Focus on what your doing Yamaha or stop doing it altogether. If you market a Keyboard as Professional make sure when you sell it to an innocent person off the street that he or she can rest assured they are truly getting what they paid for and what they thought they were buying ie., a "True in every way Professional Keyboard". The Motif can be bought for 1/2 the price of the 9000Pro yet your worried that a 9000Pro user doesn't have the brains (he sure has the money though) to do serious professional level work on his Keyboard? Give him or her the tools, which, btw, he or she thought they were getting to begin with, and I am sure that person, if they don't already know how, will take the time and effort needed to learn about and use it to its intended full potential. They forked over the cash in the tune of twice that of a Motif 6. Give them more credit than what your Tech is conveying in that reply to ThePro. They trusted you when you said the 9000Pro was a professional grade Keyboard and were willing to pay the price on that assumption. Can you do no less Yamaha than give your customers a product that lives up to its 'name' in every aspect of the word "Professional"?

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I realize as CEO, Shuji Ito is trying to turn around less than stellar Business results Yamaha's Music Division was facing just a few short years ago, and he seems to be doing just that. But in the process Yamaha Music Division seems to be cutting corners on some of their products in the area of Quality Vs Quantity. You are mass producing your Keyboards and selling them at a reasonable price point in the hopes of attracting more customers which is commendable. But in doing that you are oftentimes leaving out the "Serious Professional Keyboardist" by producing less than "Professional Grade" Keyboards. The
very 'Customer' who has the potential of being your mainstay and also your substantial bread and butter are the ones you are not providing for.

Man!!!, how I wish that Shuji Ito visited this site. He could sure learn a thing a two from all our SZ members vast storehouse of Knowledge and insight and in what the Professional Keyboardist really wants and needs and demands in a Keyboard.




[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-20-2003).]

Peter, tell that to all the Motif users.
And to Stevie Wonder in particular. Although I am pretty sure most of them wouldn't use Midi backing tracks in a Live situation, but in their private studio I would have to think they most certainly would. That is the reason why Yamaha included Midi support and integration into the Motif so the user could do just that if and when he or she chooses. Even in a Live situation if the Keyboardist so desires.

Best regards,
Mike

Gotta run! Have an excellent day everyone!

[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 06-20-2003).]

Hi Pro

If you look inside the tables for XGworks, the 9000Pro is listed as PSR-9000Pro. Just thought you'd like to know. Incidentally, I'm updating the XGworks tables for the 9000/9000Pro if you're interested. I've done the instrument definitions which are already installable and I'm working on the rest.

Bryan

P.S. I've modified the tables so the 9000Pro is listed as such but I had to lump it in with Portatone as there was no other place to put it!

This sounds like plain double talk to me, as Yamaha clearly marketed the Yamaha 9000pro as a Pro-fessional keyboard at NAMM. Now that they're caught with their pants down with this drum card midi channel assignment incompatibilty issue, they just turn the other cheek. It seems that Yamaha could solve this with a keyboard OS upgrade, but it's obvious they're just not interested.



Now that I hear you're able to configure XGworks to select/call up all the sounds (voices) in the 9000/9000pro, I'm now interested in finding how how to configure XGworks so it will do the same thing with the Tyros. Can you (or anywone else here) possibly provide step by step instructions in achieving this? Thanks. - Scott