Anyone from Yamaha lurking on this forum or Steve Demming who has been sorely missed for a few months I have a question. Are there any plans to offer incentives to loyal Yamaha owners on the new Tyros similar to what was offered to other workstation owners like the Motif?

Thanks
Al

That would be a great idea! I for one, have owned many Yamaha keyboards, and a loyalty program would deffinitely keep me interested.

Yeah, that's going to happen. Not.
Yamaha's target market for arrangers is home hobbiests, not professionals or even semi-professionals. Those of us who play for money make up a very tiny percentage of their sales and they couldn't care less about us.
Of course, that's just my opinion. Prove me wrong.
DonM

I have to agree with Don. Altough his post may seems a little harsh I think he's right. Yamaha I think (clearly) showing its history doesn't give two darn hoots about the arranger area of customer service and customer loyalty.

Don's also right about the numbers who play for money as well. They aim for the home player and hobbiest (even though the bastards price one of their semi-pro keyboards at nearly $1,500), and it (in my opinion has a build quality of a cheap $200 Casio) Yeah I know some will disagree because of how often they play out with them, but seriously it's not built for the gigging musician.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-03-2005).]

I think you are correct with that.

The professional and semiprofessional market is an unintended market for arranger manufacturers.

Arranger manufacturers have demonstrated that by still building their high-end arrangers for the home market and rarely if at all taking in to account the professional player’s wants and needs for an arranger keyboard.

You're right on with that comment. Can't understand why they build such cheap quality in a $1500 board. What I'd like to see is something the quality and build of the CVP 307 Clavinova but in a portable version. Can't understand why they won't. I sometimes use on gigs as a controller a Privia 400 that cost me $700 and it's built like a tank. Sure I understand there's R & D costs and more expensvie electronics etc. in the arranger board vs. the $700 Casio, but I think Yamaha can do better. I know they can cause I've owned 2 Clavinova's first the CVP 107 and now the 307. When I look at the pricing of the new Tyros 2 vs. Clav 303 or 305 tells me " The bicsuits ain't comin out with the gravy."

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-03-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-03-2005).]

Don you are SPOT ON my friend!!!.....

Us pros know whats going on because we're in the trenches day in and day out....
home players dont realize......thank the lord theres other choices and options on the market to accomplish our tasks & make a living.....If it works for you do it.....if not move on and try something else that does. Geeeze its only plastic KB dont salivate over it...in a few months something else will come out to bait you along.




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-03-2005).]

I suppose I'm the odd man out here, because I'm a PRO musician who CONTINUES to enjoy performing with the Yamaha Tyros, finding it well suited for my live keyboard-vocal act. For high quality sound, live keyboard performance, balanced with portability (<30 lbs & small size), I still think Tyros1 (and now Tyros2 with 'new' Super Articulation voices & enhanced features) unsurpassed.

I refuse to hold (insecure) hang-ups :eek with the 'pro'vs 'hobbyist' syndrome that some others here appear to hold. I simply chose the keyboard that works best to inspire me musically and deliver my audience the best I have to offer. If I could do it with a kazoo, I'd of course save $, but imo, the Tyros, strikes that idea balance between terrific sound, features, ease of use, and portability. If the Yamaha Tyros2 is only aimed for the hobbyist (as you claim), that's fine with me, just as long as it CONTINUES to meet MY pro standards, and it does.

As far as the HIGH price of arrangers go, considering pros are able to write off (amortize depreciate) their equipment costs, the price is actually quite reasonable for the return on the investment, especially if you guys gig 'as often' as you claim.

Scott

Scott, I didn't say it wasn't a good choice for pros, I just said Yahama's primary target is home users.
As you know I was very happy with the Tyros. Now I'm very happy with the SD1. If T2 is better, I'll be happy with it. If not, who knows. I like to change about once a year, as that seems to work out better for me when you consider tax write-offs, resale value, etc.
I'm still considering Midjay with controller, but I'm in no hurry, because what I'm doing is working fine.
DonM

Scott, you're right that it pays off if the person has regular and frequent gigs. You'll of course see a return in your investment.

The thing is that not all of us perform anymore. So the initial purchase isn't something we see a return on (financially). It's just a huge chunk out of our pockets.

I know I've been hard on the PSR-3000 lately, but the only thing keeping that keyboard out of my home is its construction. $1,500 is a lot of money no matter how you look at it. I won't spend that kind of money on a keyboard that doesn't even have full size keys, full size pitch and mod wheels that are off good quality, Good switches (meaning contacts), ect.

Am I making sense? It's like buying a Mercedes Benz (that's a Mercedes on the inside, but the body is made by Daewoo:, but you end up paying the price of the Mercedes.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-03-2005).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-03-2005).]

Depends on who the home player is For years I just played home as a hobbyist, people would comment why don't you gig. Pretty much because I had a another career that demanded much of my time and who wanted to be working Friday and Saturday nights anyway with a demanding 8 to 5, 6... even 7 PM full time job. A few years ago I purchased the a CVP and realized it made a lot of music with a minimum of effort vs. playing solo piano. Fast forward to October 2004, retired from the demanding job and now do my other hobby full time supporting computer users at a law firm. I bought a PSR 3k and decided I could have some fun gigging.(not making a living) as many of you do. Based on some good advice here at the forum I tweaked what I've been playing and did a 180 degree turn on my approach to the whole thing and the gigs are starting to come my way. Played 2 shows this weekend at a Fall Festival in my home town. I know the audience enjoyed my playing from the sound of the applause... and seem to be getting repeat calls and thank you notes from activty directors to come back to play the retirement homes. I know I still have a long way to go to catch up with you pros( and may never get to the "pro status" that many of you have achieved). But, I still contend as a home semi/pro player that Yammie should have market a CVP with 88 keys in portable version. Yea, it maybe heavy but there's nothing like a true piano action and 88 keys for me.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-03-2005).]

Stephen........Yamaha & others should have a PRO KB arranger line a gear, designed by pros, for use by pros inside and out .....ruggedly built to withstand the punishment of everyday use...+ a choice 61-76 good feeling keys & yes weighted 88 piano keys....+ a choice of optional accessories, vocal boards with 2 or 3 xlr inputs, polyphony, sampling, Hd's, etc etc that the Player can easily plug in and install..
they should be listening to REAL players wants & needs & satisfy them ....
Ahhh whats the use just keep searching for Shangrila while they bait & bleed us each year with minimal useless upgrades & dissapointments!!

Thankyou Im finished ranting..

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-03-2005).]

Posted by; Dnj

-------------------------------------------
........Yamaha & others should have a PRO KB arranger line a gear, designed by pros, for use by pros inside and out .....ruggedly built to withstand the punishment of everyday use...+ a choice 61-76 god feling keys & yes weighted 88 piano keys....+ a choice of optional accessories, vocal boards with 2 or 3 xlr inputs, polyphony, sampling, Hd's, etc etc that the Player can easily plug in and install..
they should be listening to REAL players wants & needs & satisfy them ....
Ahhh whats the use just keep searching for Shangrila while they bait & bleed us each year with minimal upgrades & dissapointments
-------------------------------------------

Dnj, Very well put! Couldn't agree more.

Stephen, I totally understand where you coming from. I worked at a Law Firm myself. Worked in Real Estate and then Workers Comp. That job took SOOOOO much energy out of me. There were many times I even pulled weekends. Like you I was always having people tell me I need to get back into performing. I did this years back when I had the time (and the band). Then after the band split I did the solo gig.

Now that I'm at home taking care of my daughter and finishing college, I still find that I don't have the time or energy. My Birthday is next weekend, and all my friends want to go out and paint the town. Hell I don't even have the desire to that anymore I'd rather spend the day with my wife and daughter.

Dnj, is right. Yammie needs to listen to the pros more often. I honestly think it's pretty damn insulting. Yamaha knows that pros are using the arrangers (like the PSR-3000). Their not oblivious to this in any way. Steve was a frequent here and I'm sure he relayed many of our thoughts and suggestions. However, I STRONGLY feel that Yamaha doesn't give a rats behind about what the pros think in the arranger department. It seems that they (and others) want to make sure their is a definitive line between the arranger players and synth players. They will continue to advertise the arrangers to the home buyer/hobbiest, and market the synths to the pros. Drives you nuts huh?

Squeak

But Donny .... then it would be tooooo HEAVY !!!
t.

Most of you know that the only thing I like coming from Yamaha these days is motorcycles and grand pianos. But, I have to admire the corporate business model. They have one of the best research divisions in the world. They know the size of every portion of the market, price elasticity, can forcast volume of each model by age and income groups...even by education. They make decisions based on the bottom line.

That's extremely admirable from a strictly business point of view, but sort of cold-hearted in my mind, as a user of arranger keyboards.

All Yamaha arrangers lack build quality and cutting edge sound, for my purposes.

I'm glad so many people can use 3000's (I had one for a week and gave tt to my granddaughter), Tyros ( I,II...whatever).

The important thing is to play what YOU can use to produce the results YOU WANT!

Whatever you play, keep the music happening, and ENJOY YOURSELF. Then, everyone listening will enjoy themselves, Too!

Russ

So what are you playing nowadays Russ?

Even though I'm waiting for a 76 key Tyros2, which btw may never happen, I do feel it is the best Arranger Keyboard on the soon to be market. Hardly a toy in my estimation. Especially when you consider Yamaha has improved the keybed, which supposedly will be more suited for the traditional Piano player with a more Piano like touch. With such statements as you gave it appears you've given up on Arrangers or Keyboards in general and are instead using a real Grand Piano or possibly a Clavinova CVP-309 or something similar??

If you are using a real Grand then unfortunately you will only get a Piano sound out of it. If you are using a CVP-309 then congratulations Russ! You have the best of both worlds. But you wouldn't be able to transport it to Gigs because of its weight. A Grand Piano either for that matter.

Enter the Tyros2...

Best regards,
Mike

Call the Tyros an expensive Toys-R-us toy if you wish, but aren't ALL keyboards that are FUN to play really toys anyway?

As a gigging performer, a keyboard must INSPIRE musical inspiration & creativity yet be PORTABLE (and lightweight as possible) at the SAME time. Tyros delivers!

Scott

As a new guy here, I want to chime in a bit and say I totally agree with Scottyee on the Tyros2. I'm now transitioning from a 30-year career to performing original music whenever and wherever I can, and there's nobody helping me carry the stuff around. (PSR2100, two Mackie srm350s, Logitech sub, poles). I've tried all the top-end stuff, and all of it's too heavy, period, except Yammie. So far, no one has come up to me after a gig and said "Dude, the velocity sample on that snare drum didn't cut it." (whatever that means). Actually, I'm trying out drummers to see if a duo approach works, maybe even a guitar. Also, if I do some recording down the road, I'll take the T2 into the studio and start with it and add other instrument tracks as it suits me.
Anyway, what I want now is a keyboard that sounds good (I've always liked Yammie's "musical" styles) and is light weight. I actually hope the keybed isn't too "good>" I don't want to play "guitar" riffs on a Steinway. One thing. . .I'm disappointed there isn't an XLR mic input and apparently no upgrade of the vocalizer (why?). Lastly, how many "hobbyists" are gonna shell out three grand for a keyboard? DerfM

Great prospective DerfM! And welcome to the family.
BTW, our local music store (small market) had four of the original Tyros. They sold all of them to MDs. (Medical Doctors, not Musical Directors) Three of the Doctors were originally from India. I don't know what, if anything, this means, just interesting.
DonM

Hi Derf, like DonM said, welcome to the SZ family here.

I've found that merely adding ONE additional LIVE band member onstage: aka duo (ie: female vocalist, horn player, or) typically generates better audience response & acceptance of our arranger keyboard act as a legitimate 'real band' act 'ten-fold', and frequently brings in more than the double $ than if kept a single act. I believe the musical interaction that takes place between musician's onstage is a crucial ingredient to creating the kind of musical energy audiences appreciate and have grown to expect.

Scott

Mike, for "one nighters", I use an old Ketron MS 60, which I prefer to any Yamaha
I have ever played, with the refinements to the registrations I have done over the years.Sometimes, I also use a Hammond XB-2 on the bottom for manual bass and that hammond sound, with a Motion Sound top box (tube, with top rotor only). I intended to replace the MS 60 with an SD-1 Plus at this years' NAMM, but AJ wasn't at the Show. Am trying to hold out for the next high end Ketron. Demoed a Midjay at the Namm before last, and if the next Ketron has those features, it'll be a killer.

For my long-standing country club job, I use a B-3, 147 Leslie, Suitcase Rhodes and keyboard controller with a Yamaha (yes, damnit) tone generator.(old school, for sure, but keeps that left hand working).

For my other semi-house job at a private club for horse farm owners (piano only) I use a Yamaha Clavinova CPV 65...old, but great piano sound and action, 88 keys and it stays in tune.

Both the B-3 and the Clavinova have been where they are now for over 10 years. Wouldn't think about moving them.

How's that for an eclectic mix of boards...?

Russ