are we "cheating"?..it's just semantics, isn't it? it really doesn't matter if we call it cheating or not, we do it. e.g.... -instead of playing an acoustic piano, we play a digital keyboard with a synthesized or sampled piano sound. even if we do only this, isn't it cheating? we are in effect telling the audience: listen to us play the piano, and we are not playing a piano. but this is the very thinnest line, we might make the case we are playing the same way we would play a piano..same for rhodes..and a bit further removed for organ, but still in the ballpark: similar keyboards played with the fingers. -but let's move a step further: instead of vibes, instead of marimba, etc..we are playing a synthesized or sampled version of those instruments. we are still working with keyboard-style instruments but we are using our fingers, not mallets. we are cheating a bit more, are we not? -now we move to guitars, strings, hand percussion, etc: still played with the hands but those instruments are not keyboard-based. so we are now cheating even more. -heavy "cheating" now: wind instruments!!! how do we justify playing those on a kb? we are not using our breath or lips at all! we are going down the slippery slope. aaaargh!! -a huge leap: drum machines in our kb's. wow, how far will we go? is this not the end of western civilization as we know it????? -Ok now, enough is enough: whole backgrounds with bass lines, brass riffs, etc, etc... intros, outros, fills, pads, fades. Arrest these impostors!! where are the arranger police when you need them? -sequencing. biab, smf's: Oh No!!!! where did it all start, this descent into hell? when we started using portable piano substitutes?no, we must return to the source. which is--the early music keyboards PLUCKED the keys. it was nice, quiet, austere, pure. THEN---the devil invented that giant noisy instrument with hammers that STRUCK the strings, and with a pedal to create a totally artificial sustain, no less. CHEATING!!!that, my friends, was the beginning of the end. seriously, does anyone believe that the audience doesn't know you aren't playing a piano? a rhodes? an organ? vibes? strings? winds? does anyone think the audience believes there is a dwarf playing drums inside your amp? or a big band of elves? or that the audience thinks or cares if you personally programmed every beat and personally synthesized every sound and personally created every arrangement? aside from the fact they would be impressed if you told them that. -you can refer to the least sophisticated audience you like: abilities being equal, they will prefer a duo or trio to a solo performer. they will prefer a better solo musician (one who makes the music come alive) to one who is a stiff mechanic. we who play arrangers should concern ourselves with improving our musicianship no matter what tools we use..the issue of CHEATING is a non-issue. IMHO

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Miami Mo

sorry my posts now have no breaks. when i was using safari w/my mac i had a problem of uneven lines..now i'm using firefox and it's not following my format: i use paragraphs and skip space for them but now everything just runs on..anyone have a clue?

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Miami Mo

Maybe you're too longwinded?

chas

that's it..thanks for your contribution.

I do what I can.

chas

Mo, don't be so thin-skinned. I'm just pulling your chain.

chas

Impressive - not cheating at all, but added creativity ...

Ah.... when in doubt, personally attack the poster...

If ignorance is bliss, let me make you less happy... I use arrangers (and have been doing so for 15 years or more) in pretty much ALL my live performance work, whether solo duo, or even with a full band. I have absolutely no qualms about using them. I find them to be far more practical keyboards for live work that most workstations. I never apologize to anyone for using one, and to be honest, after hearing me play, I have NEVER had anyone ever come up to me and disparage me for using an arranger...

I have not claimed once any of the complete rubbish you just posted (you might try actually reading my posts, instead of reading INTO my posts what you want to). No-one is inferior if they use an arranger (or if they are, I am too!).

BUT... having played with musicians like Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, Luther Vandross, Jon Bon Jovi, Eric Gale, and many others (I'm not as worried about my abilities as you think!), there is no way that I can ever claim my arranger is better than a good live band. But if you feel better about yourself comparing yourself to mediocrities, have at it. Whatever works.

Wow, Diki, those are some pretty impressive names.

You must be a terrific player to be rubbing shoulders with these guys.

What I don't understand, is why you play in a duo with a relatively unknown guitarist when you could be working in other more lucrative situations that would be more fitting of a player of your calibre.

I'm sure you have your reasons for staying in relative obscurity, but you must occasionally long for more a more prestigious(and lucrative) position with an established artist.

Ian

Thanks, Ian...

Actually, most of those names came from my session player years in NYC, but unfortunately, having been raised on a small farm in England, it soon became apparent that I am no big city guy! I have a lot of discomfort dealing with big city problems, crime, traffic, the dog eat dog attitude in the business in large cities (in my area, someone falls sick we do a benefit - in NYC they call up his bandleader and see if they can get his gig!), so I hit the road and moved down to the resort areas in Florida.

There are actually some VERY good players down here, and I get out and jam on a very regular basis with as many good live bands as I can. We have a blossoming studio scene down here (actually, just one real pro facility in my small town, SSL based, etc.) but we have several national acts that record here (had the #1 Christian act record here), so I get to do my thing at a gentler pace, enjoy the beach, and not get mugged as often

Yeah, sometimes I miss the big names, but not all the sessions were as fun. It's still a job, no matter who you play with! HOW you live, where you live, are a lot more important than who you play with. I'd rather be content in obscurity that miserable with my name in lights...