If you have to ask the question, pasadoble....

Is playing in a live band cheating..? ROFLMAO

If you don't understand the difference between using a prerecorded backing - whether it is arranger or SMF, it is still prerecorded - and a live band, with all the inter-activeness, mutual awareness, spontaneity and sheer randomness that comes from playing with four humans, maybe you should get out and jam a bit more....

In fact, there would probably be a LOT less 'Is arranger play cheating?' posts here at SZ if most of us went and played with a real band from time to time... You don't have to try and make a living at it if you don't want to, but you certainly need to experience the dynamics and inter-activeness of true 'live' playing before you get too hooked on your arrangers. Just go out and jam with some friends, sit in with a local band that maybe has no keyboard player, get involved...

Arrangers and SMFs are a VERY poor substitute for a good real band, even from the performer's view, unless you HAVEN'T played live lately. Don't forget what 'live' really means...

Use the substitution tools in your profession, or your hobby, but don't allow yourself to consider them an adequate replacement for a real band. Just let your audience do that!

Diki, I know you have British roots, so I have to ask the question; Are you related to Simon Cowell? Ever take one of his "How to win friends and influence people" seminars?

Although I basically agree with you, I just instinctively want to take the opposite point-of-view. Maybe it's just me and I'm being overly sensitive. Anyhoo, have a nice day and don't run down any little ol' ladies trying to cross the street (even if they get caught by the "red" in the middle of the intersection).

chas

Err excuse me but you obviously dont know me or my abilities..I play both live band and arranger 'A LOT' I can tell you that playing solo arranger is a lot more demanding than live band work where the other musicians still carry playing if I drop my music...if you dont play to my standard then you would'nt know what I'm talking about.

If you knew the answer, why the question, pasadoble? And honestly, if that is the ONLY difference you see between live and arranger...

Would a recording of you playing your parts be an adequate substitution for YOU? I sincerely doubt you think that, but somehow, you feel it about the OTHER musicians you played with... Not exactly a ringing endorsement. You have to learn that the other musicians (and the drummer ) have skills and abilities just as important as yours, and learn to appreciate what they do, rather than just say they are replaceable with an arranger... with no apparent difference. I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel. There is often an apparent disdain for any musician other than the keyboard player on this forum. We should remember that even the best arrangers struggle to sound realistic (and mostly fail), compared to the real thing....
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Sorry, chas... I know it's running over little old ladies, but really...

I know YOU at least understand the difference between live and arranger. They are two totally different musical experiences. I certainly don't sit up at night and worry if it is 'cheating'. But I also don't try to kid myself that they are the same, either!

Arranger playing is NOT cheating. But it isn't playing 'live' either.

That's all. Nice and simple. Now can we stop beating this one to death? I've got a pedestrian crossing to monitor...

SORRY: Arranger playing is indeed "live playing". Maybe you should have been at my concert last night for 125 people where my arranger rocked the room - LIVE

zuki

Do I sense a dead horse in the room? If so, let's stop beating it.

Diki, I'm afraid I have to agree with Cgiles and say that sometimes your on-point criticism is a little too caustic for my tastes and I too would tend to argue the point only because of the tone you bring to the post. I like your comments, but I wish I found them more digestable. Peace.

If you play an arranger, synth, or other emulator you cheat!
If you entertain you�re ok.

Just the way I see it.
Smokey

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[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 07-20-2007).]

"When I was in England, I experimented with arrangers a time or two, and I didn't like it.
I didn't cheat and never tried it again." �Bill Clinton

Unfortunately, this is why my posts tend to be a bit caustic...

A DJ could have rocked that room. Would YOU agree with him if he claimed it was 'live', too?

YOU rocked the room, zuki, NOT your arranger. YOU were the only 'live' thing there. And, unless you couldn't find any decent musicians to play with, you would have rocked it a lot harder with a live band...

Don't get me wrong, now. There's nothing wrong with using arrangers (I use 'em myself!). But don't try to pretend that they are as good as a live band (at least, a band as talented as we all think WE are... )