having a laptop makes the job alot EASIER... why carry folders and folders of lyrics pages when you can have it all on one laptop??

theres no disrespect in that. Only the people who really are living in the past and refuse to accept change and technology's advancement are the one's who have this mentality that a musician / entertainer shouldn't be using technology to assist.

your using the internet to speak your voice. why not try and become a public speaker to do it the old fashioned way?

Nick

laptop is just one of the tools.....multiple keyboards, samplers, vocal boards, & everything but the kitchen sink is being used on stage every night...why use it? because its available!
yeah we did with out airplanes years agao and lights & electricity so why do we need it now? give me a brake.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-09-2007).]

Three times I've witnessed the guy on stage, after being heckled about his playing or singing, daring the heckler to come on stage and do a better job. Well, each time those hecklers were either far better players or singers. So, never underestimate your audience.


But Taike..who was getting paid, and who was buying the drinks to pay him..

A Laptop is just one of the tools.....multiple keyboards, samplers, vocal boards, & everything but the kitchen sink on the market is being used on stage every night mostly computer driven if you havnt noticed...why use it?
because its available!
yeah we did with out airplanes years ago and lights & electricity so why do we need it now? give me a break. Read the title of the thread,is it cheating? its not all about laptops.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-09-2007).]

Bring it on, baby! But...no need getting upset, eh?

Uh, Donny, who plays the keyboard when you're wooing the ladies off-stage? Or do you have such long fingers? And you call that LIVE entertainment?

LIVE in my book means you play it yourself. I have nothing against styles, they are tools that come with the board.

So what if that laptop freezes or malfunctions?

Taike

hey taike what dont you understand ? I have repeated many times that I do it all playing live & and mixing it up with singing in so many ways, if you dont think singing is live then thats your problem .....I'm proud of it...btw, Ive yet to see or hear you offer any of your work to the SZ? let me know when that comes about then I'll continue....upset with you, dont make me laugh....just another purist attitude that I leave at the door as I said in my previous post..
gotta go now...
I got a few laptop gigs to play.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-09-2007).]

What if there is a LIVE band playing and the building has a power outage? I have seen it happen before...

Come on, Donny, I don't think it's necessary for you to hear me play. By the way, I play more than in just the key of C. Your knowledge about technology is beyond me, I give you that. Don't, however, think that I don't know how to play. I didn't get my degree given on a silver platter. I had to earn it! Just because I chose a different line of work doesn't mean that my talents are any less than yours. Not that I can sing worth a lick. Not every pro impresses me, you know. There are those that are pros because they're getting paid for playing and there are those that play like pros but are homeplayers only. Please don't make the word more than it implies.

You know very well that my point was that "live" should mean "live" and not faking it. I have no problem DomM or others using one for his lyrics. As for me, a sheet will do.

Nick, since you mention 'band' I assume that there's at least a guitar player. He'll just go unplugged and the show goes on. And why do you think Unplugged was so popular?

Taike

What a storm in a teacup...

It's simple... Unless EVERYTHING the audience hears is played live, it's cheating. Arrangers, SMF's, MP3's, laptops (for music playback, not lyrics!), IT'S ALL THE SAME.

It's not cheating if you PLAY LH bass, but it is if you use an arranger or sequence.

It's not cheating if you PLAY the horn parts, but it is if you sequence them.

Rinse and repeat.

BUT.... Nowadays, the audience EXPECTS you to cheat. To the point where THEY think they can get on stage with a mike and YOUR laptop and do the show themselves! It is getting to the point where, even if you ARE playing 'live', they go 'Where's the backing tracks?'

As musicians, we need to display skills that they can't even PRETEND to do, and playing backing tracks, especially on a laptop, just plays into their hands. The more you PLAY, the more they realize you are NOT one of them. You ARE a 'musician', a 'keyboard player'. The minute you step away from the keyboard and everything doesn't grind to a halt, they (probably quite rightly) KNOW you are just karaoke. Admittedly, better than they can do it, but karaoke nonetheless.

Is this how you want to be seen?

I just feel it is far better to NEVER let them see the 'man behind the curtain'. As long as you stay firmly behind the keyboard, and visibly play as much as you can, especially ALL the solos, at least you will remain a 'keyboard player' in their eyes. But let it take over, and walk away, and they have EVERY right to assume you might have been faking the whole time. After all, it's what THEY would do...!

A lot of the mystery about music production is gone. Most people have simple loop manipulation apps on their computers, and know a LOT more about SMFs and MP3's than they used to. They understand that major acts on tour often fly in backing tracks, sometimes even lead vocals during dance numbers or throat problems. So how do we demonstrate our worth?

By doing something they CAN'T. Play... visibly, extravagantly, expressively. Don't EVER let them think it's NOT you...

And, if the venue can afford it, don't squeeze them for more money for you... get a sideman. Get two... Get a rhythm section. Turn off the machines and do it ALL 'live'. Do what you can. Or we ALL deserve to be replaced by karaoke singers. If 'cheating' IS all right, what right do we have to be scornful of karaoke? It is just the next logical step...

Doesn't apparently keep Valli up at night...

Diki....not so.. simple fact you play an arranger kb which in itself emits more then one instrument with only one person sitting there playing it & its lumped into all the above ....& cheating is thought of by the audience plain and simple the who's playing all that music hes by himself attitude will never cease to the audiences mind....you can surly make yourself believe it, but they will not no matter how you conscrew it.....the defensiveness old school thinking that this is wrong amazes me instead of embracing it....technology changes, music changes with it like anything else....if you want to mentally block it, try to say it ain't so, twist it around to suit you mental purist comfort zone or your friends' and audience, not let it sink in that your just controlling a form of midi file by playing a style anyway that won't change anything & guess what, its gonna get more high tech & more pseudo cheating will be on the rise with every new gear design, KB concoction and player combination to make music....

next time you look at the audience ...
try to read their minds......

"Hmmmmm....is That Guy up there Cheating?"

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-10-2007).]