What arranger(s) and non-arranger(s) do you think are (or have been) the best for live performance?

The two I've owned and liked are:
Korg iX300 - just didn't care for the thin sounds.
Roland VR760 - it's the best all-around keyboard I've owned. It's so simple to use, and the B3 sim is the best.

------------------
Cass Pawlowski - Motown
PSR2000, VR760, SC88
Cakewalk, PowerTracks, BIAB

Cass,

As you know, I'm a Yammie person, and though I've owned a few other brands, I've always been confortable with the Yammies for live performances. I really like the ease of navigation, great styles and love the voices. Right now, I believe the PSR-3000 and Tyros would be difficult to beat for live work, but I'm sure some of the other folks here will have different opinions and preferences.

Gary

The Yamaha Tyros (at least for now) is defintely the WINNING Live Performance keyboard (for me), but I guess most everyone here already knew I was going to say that.

Here's why:

1. Nice button size & layout, and lighted too boot. Intuitive navigation with a large EZ view color screen. Great effect especially on a dark stage.

2. Wide variety of impressive preset dynamic voices (sounds) & styles and most importantly, VERY USEABLE in a live GIG situation covering a wide variety of popular styles of music.

3. THREE (3) separate programable foot pedal controlers for convenient 'on the fly' arranger control, allowing you to focus hands on playing the kb, plus foot pedal support (MFC10) for a wide variety of midi functions as well.

4. Lightweight & Portable (27 lbs) assuring convenient & quick transport.

5. Cool visual onstage look with keyboard shape reminescent of the flying wing type jet: http://www.photovault.com/Link/Military/AirForce/show.asp?tg=MYFVolume12/MYFV12P12_19

6. Unique Music Finder database feature & song registration setup suitable for spontaneous (request) performance as well as scripted song setlist.

Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

The Tyros is deffinitely not good for Live playing for the simple reason that it is bulky and on top of that you need to shlep along that monitoring system (sub and 2 spkrs).

I, personally therefore, am seriously considering trading it for the 3000, as apparantly there aren't any major differences.

Chony

The best live keyboard to me is the Roland G1000[what did you think I was going to say}..After you guys play the Tyros and 3000 , six or seven years..see if the feeling is the same[if they last that long] ..by that time I will have the G1000 for more than a dozen years, and it will stil be a great "live keyboard"...I only hope I will..

Cass, the VR760 is definately one of the best playing keyboards I ever played...I probably will pick another one up someday..unless the G70 meets all my needs..

Chony, you got to be kidding, right? Have you compared it to the other 'top of the line' arranger models out there from: Korg, Roland, GEM, & Ketron? It'lighter and less bulky then the rest of the pack.

Chony, the keyboarad feel is one the primary reasons I decided to stay with the Tyros vs downgrading to a PSR3000 for it's slightly lighter weight & size & speakers. Other important differences (to me) is that that the Tyros has 3 vs 2 foot controller outputs, 3 RT live panel voices vs 2, dedicated 3 intro/3 ending buttons vs having to go into the screen, separate conveninetly located mic volume KNOB in addition to mic trim on the back of the kb. The 2000 only includes the mic trim on the back of the kb. Another thing I appreciate about the Tyros over the PSR3000 is that the physical arranger buttons themselves are larger, and more ruggedly built to withstand the rigors of gigging than the PSR3000. I can atest to the durability of the Tyos because I've had mine & played it daily for nearly 2 years without any problems. The ONLY thing I initially missed was having onboard speakers, but I got over missing that real quickly, especially considering the other MORE IMPORTANT performance benefits I get from it.

Chony, the PSR3000 is an excellent keyboard too, if you don't mind the spongy (less responsive imo) keyboard feel. When my Tyros was in the shop for the USB warranty upgrade a few weeks ago, I had to borrow a PSR2000 to play, which has the SAME keys as the PSR3000. I have to admit that it's SPONGY (less responsive) keyfeel limited my ability to produce as much 'musical expression' in my playing as I had grown acustomed to on the Tyros. In addition, others here reported that there is no difference in sound, when auditioning the Tyros & PSR3000 side by side, I definitely noticed a DIFFERENCE in the overall sound of these two keyboards. Scott Langholff had also auditioned the PSR3000 & Tyros together and observed the same thing. Perhaps it's just because we're both named Scott. Then again, the PSR3000 is considerably LESS expensive than the Tyros.

Scott

chony

My suggestion to you is the same as my last reply. I would try the 3000 before I got rid of the Tyros.

If one is going up from a PSR2000,2100, that's one thing. BUT, if you like your Tyros and are used to the extra nice feel of the keys, the rich tone and some of the other things ScottY has mentioned like the 3 layered right hand voices. You may regret getting rid of the Tyros before auditioning the 3000.

Once you are used to the button layout on the Tyros you will feel incredibly cramped on the 3000.

I was going to get a 3000 to play out with, leaving my Tyros at home. But they were soooo much different that I wouldn't consider it for myself. My wife who also plays, took about 60 seconds to size it up and walked away. I gave it a longer trial trying to use the mixer to match the sounds that I use on the Tyros and it never came close. I really, really wanted to like the 3000 , but it would prove unsafisfactory for me.

I bought the Technics KN2600 because it was hailed as the mini KN7000, using the same nx sound engine. Yeah, right. ha! BS! Not for me. Some may like it. But not me.


But, that's us. Maybe you'll like it. A lot of people do. But, it seems like about everyone that got one went up from an older, lower moder, not down from the Tyros.

One thing for sure is the tone is not identical between the 3000 and the Tyros. Great for what it is and what is was intended for, but no contest. Some have said the PSR2100 sounds just like the Tyros. I think they should have their hearing checked. Seriously.

If you try it out first you're playing it safe.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 10-26-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott Langholff:
[B]chony

Some have said the PSR2100 sounds just like the Tyros. I think they should have their hearing checked. Seriously.


Wise Words.

The best LIVE keyboard is my old Roland XV-88!

And I almost forgot to say the best Arranger keyboard for live playing is my Ketron SD1!


Luis Santos

[This message has been edited by Luis.Santos (edited 10-27-2004).]

I really liked using the Roland XP-60, and the Yamaha EX-7. It was nice being able to set up numerous 16 part performances, and having 16 buttons on the panel to select the voices in each performance on the fly.

Squeak

Scott,
The 3000 has those 3 dedicated intro/ending buttons like the Tyros.
Also, the key feel is NOT the same as the 2x00 it even has a longer throw.

I'm not nominating the 3k as top dog....just setting the facts straight.
If I had to take one kb out to play in a LIVE band ..... I think the 9k pro is my answer to most questions.
Actually, the Korg PA1x is a close second. The key feel on the 61 key model is different than the pro model, and I prefer it. I also like the layout of the drawbar/sliders. I'd be real happy playing the PA1x in a band situation.

I personally don't gig with my Tyros. It seems far too delicate and the keyboard action and response is only just about ok for me. I still gig with either of 2 Studiologic semi weighted keyboards with a Ketron XD3.

However, It's not just about keyboard action for me because I know that if I only ever play the Tyros (or a 3000, 2000 etc) I would get used to it.

One of the things I am really really bad at is remembering words to the songs I play. Sure I can rememember all of the words to some of the songs and some of the words to all of the songs. I could of course practice more and perhaps I should but I really enjoy having a very big repertoire and for some reason I can always remember the melody and chord side of things but not the lyrics.

On the XD3 you can have individual registration files on disk that load instantaneously, and I save these as individual song titles. If you also save a text file with the same name (just a different extension) then the words also load automatically at the same time as the registration. This is absolutely invaluable to me with my lame memory

Although the Tyros shows Lyrics these are just for midi or karaoke files. I'm not interested in using Midi files but it may be possible to somehow create midi/karaoke files with lyrics but no music. However, I still havent the control of which words are on the screen at any one time and they don't load automatically.

I have gone into detail above really to show that the size/ weight and lyric display are perhaps the most important for live performance considerations for me. Good voices, Rythmns and styles, acceptable on board VH, navigation and control are all important as well but some are more so than others to each of us.

Like many have said before - whatever is best for each person's varies according to their individual requirements. Having said that, I'm not sure that everyone is sure what these are until they have bought the wrong thing a few times - lol

KFingers

Well, everyone thinks their keyboard is best for live use, and so do I! In fact, my Yamaha 9000 Pro is so invaluable for stage use that I own two of them, one of which stays pretty much on stage or in the car and the other in my practice studio. I've owned many instruments including Kurzweils, Korgs and Rolands but the Yamaha 9000 Pro is the most useful and versatile keyboard of them all. It has many of the arranger features of the Tyros such as the Music Finder database, vocal harmonizer, internal hard drive, great sounds etc. but then it's unique features are:

* 76-keys and one of the best-feeling keybeds of any arranger - an absolute must for me as a pianist. This single feature alone eliminates much of the competition for my use, and what competition that remains is overpriced and has less features.

* Expandable polyphony - accepts PLG-series voice cards including the new PLG150-AP triple strike acoustic piano. My current configuration has 208 notes of polyphony. No other arranger can claim this honor.

* LittlLite Plugs - better than light-up buttons IMHO because the entire surface of the keyboard and the music stand is fully illuminated. It even helps illuminate the performer.

* Low-impedence mic input... which should be required on all arrangers but isn't.

* Sampling - I use this only occasionally but better to have than not.

The 9000 Pro is the most practical keyboard I've ever owned because it can cover any gig situation I can throw at it. Since it's an arranger it can even allow me to improvise on stage - even my Motif ES 8 can't do that as effectively. And it looks great... I still get a lot of admirers who've never seen anything like it. I couldn't stand a smaller or less capable keyboard so until someone makes something much better then this'll be my primary stage instrument.

Oh, one other thing - since it's no longer made the prices of used 9000 Pro's have dropped to around the price of a PSR3000.

[This message has been edited by The Pro (edited 10-27-2004).]

I find it interesting that most of you choose your current keyboard as the best live board you've had. I have a 2k and it's easy to use and has a great sound, but it's not what I think is one of the best. I'm surprised at how many actually and truly love their Tyros (I haven't gotten but 5 minutes to try it out, so I have no real opinion of it). I can remember working at the Wurlitzer store in the mall. The boss and I would do dueling organs on the 4600's at the entrance. They had that chicka-boom drum machine, but they sounded great. We sure brought in the customers with those babies. Sorry, just rambling...

As you know, I like Ketron keyboards the best. It's part experience, familiarity and a prefernce for Ketron sounds.

Russ

The Best live keyboard for me is the Gem Genesys Pro.
It can cover every live situation from solo gigs to playing in a band. The hard drive and sampler gives me instant access to any sound I would need in a live setting. The onboard MP3, Wave and CD player makes my setup complete. I don’t have to carry any extra stuff other than a PA system.

The only thing that would have made it totally complete is if there were a 76 model or better yet a module.


[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 10-27-2004).]

Hi guys...
why don't will value for another real possibility?
The MEDIASTATION is available to order and not only for looking in the webpage.
here some news: http://www.lionstracs.com/~demos/video/berndesktop.WMV
http://www.lionstracs.com/~demos/video/berndsounds.WMV
http://www.lionstracs.com/~demos/video/berndstyle1.WMV
http://www.lionstracs.com/~demos/video/berndplayer1.WMV

Enjoy it and any comments are welcome
cheers
Domenik

Uh Oh, here we go...

It's pretty simple really: if there was a better keyboard for my performing needs than what I currently use, I would buy it. I think that goes for many of us. In fact, I own a Yamaha Motif ES 8 which is newer and in many ways more powerful than my 9000 Pro, but I still prefer my 9000 Pro for live use. I seriously considered nearly every keyboard and arranger on the market before buying my second 9000 Pro but nothing could beat it for my needs or for the price.

UD, true, but the PSR3000's key still feels rather spongy (=less responsive) than on the Tyros. Quick 'key response' is IMPORTANT for producing 'musical expression' especially when playing & articulating melodic phrases , especially on uptempo tunes. I'm not knocking the PSR3000 (great sound & features, especially considering its bargain price), and also acknowledge shared key feel gripes I have with BOTH the Tyros & PSR3000 (namely Yamaha arranger's smaller key 'size'), but for whatever reason, I've been able to adjust (adapt) to 'that', but NOT with the prior.

As far as the key throw (distance between the un-depressed key position & the key fully depressed), has anyone here actually made measurement comparisons? I'm curious to find out what the real measurable difference is in inches.

Scott

I've had about all of them, except for the GEM and latest Ketron (SD1).
I love the Tyros. Good sounds, easy to use, versatile, light weight, reliable, and not that expensive.
DonM

Well, I gotta say, the Mediastation has got something going, I think!
Hey Domenik, what's the price of one of these?

------------------
Roy-Andrè

DonM: Good point! The actual street price is quite a bit lower than the manufacterer list. I got mine for around $2,400 (US dollars) nearly 2 years ago when the Tyros was initally released. This comes out to costing me only $3.28/day (over two years) . . . a BARGAIN all things considered. I assume that the Tyros street price has dropped substantially since I got mine as well. - Scott

Hi Roy
The official price of MS is 3.290 Euro.
Ask from one your dealer there to order one MS...maybe you will get a interesting price...

Domenik

Hey Dominik,

Have you found a US distributor yet? If so, who and where?

Tell Bernd I thought he did a real nice job in the demos.

While watching the Sounds demo, I really like the way you could edit and shape the sound in real time as you played. The screen and controls were right there, no digging down 3 or 4 screens. Then, while watching the Player demo, I wondered if you could do the same thing while a midi file plays? Go to an individual instrument in a track and have immediate editing capabilities while it played. Shape the sound to your liking and save the changes for future play.(?)

I know you can do that now on some boards but it's not as immediate as it appeared on the MS.

Hope to see and hear one soon in person......

Apologies to cassp for sneaking this in on his thread.

-mike

Domenik

Domenik,

In the Lionstracs demo, the demonstrator edits the patches (sounds) with faders and changes resonance, chorus, reverb, etc.

Can you save those edited patches back to the keyboard and recall them later?

Thanks
Al

Hi AL
yes, of course.
You saw in the Video, when we are in the sound screen, the 8 left slider are available for the realtime sound: Volume, Panpot, Reverb send, Chorus send, CUToff, Resonance, Attack, Release.
Then you can recall the USER key mode, where in this case you can save your own patch sounds and always recall in realtime this 8 effects.
Same stuff when you recall in realtime with the key MODE: the MS-Synth, the Linux sampler or the Native Instruments B4, FM7, TC Elicon...


Domenik

Domenik,
I am really interested in some more demos of your styles. On your homepage you only have 4 or 5 demos. Are you able to give us some more? I must say that so far this looks very promising, and maybe a few of the members here must swallow a little camel after this one.......

------------------
Roy-Andrè

I agree with Squeak on the XP. I used an XP-80 and those 16 dedicated part buttons were awesome. Pluse they were right in front of you so you could easily see what you're pressing and you could just layer sound after sound. Of course you have to use less fingers each time you layer a new sound so as to not run out of poly. I gave it up for an Motif ES7 because of the sound quality the ES7 puts out. I really do miss that function of the xp-80. So much so, I'm going to build a midi controller/merge box with 16 toggle switches to get this functionality back. Hopefully I'll build it small enough to be used by placing it righ on top of the ES7, just off to the left side.

Bob
<><