Hello all. I've been lurking on this forum for quite some time while I saved coin for an arranger keyboard. Time has come to belly up to the bar and acquire a board. The problem is that the only type boards I can find around my neck of the woods are low-end beginner type boards. And, although I am a low-end beginner type player, I want to get a high-end board. Don't ask why.

So, what to get? Based solely on Internet demos, my preferences are (in order), G70, PA1X or Pro or PA800, Tyros 2. I would like to acquire such board for Christmas, so the PA800 might not be available???

I would ask what is the "best" board, but I know that won't work on this forum as angst seems to take control. Go figure. So, I guess I'd like to ask what are the characteristics of each product line? Such as, which board would be most reliable, how often are software upgrades provided, which boards are most flexible, which might be best suited for a newbie, etc.

Another approach would be to ask what are the nuances of each board that might be helpful in guiding one's selection.

As you can see, I pretty much have zero idea of what to ask, but somewhere, someone out there might have a good thought to share with this poor soul?

I might also add that such acquisition would be for a hobbyist. Ages ago I taught myself how to hit keys and make noise, and make no mistake, I make noise, not music....but then again, beauty is in the eye (ears) of the beholder, right?

Anyone care to weigh in with a response? I'm all ears...and thumbs. Thanks.

You can ask what is the "best" board...and I will answer...easily the G70..Best sequence playback..Best style tools,..best key feel,...best organ,...best harmonizer,..and best constuction..

All of the above are true..

Wow ...... Fran likes Roland stuff, huh?
Go Figgur !

Dave ....what makes ya say that?


BTW Mustard heres some helpful hints discussed before.......
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/004401.html



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-23-2006).]

The 3 amigos in one post...WOW!!!!!!!!!!

Hello mustard
The best board for beginners and for ease of use is the T2 (Unless you go for a used Technics which leaves the T2 OS for dead) however the easy operation is also its downfall, in that you have limited editing features onboard.
Roland’s need some user input to set up, but once done you can get one hell of a sound. (I would suggest E80 rather then G70)
The Korg models are the most balanced of the boards you mention, but the OS can be difficult to get into. (Well worth the effort though)
My personal choice would be one of the low end boards that you have your area, as these will give you the experience, and also allow you to focus on what you like and dislike, thus making your next keyboard choice a whole lot easier.
Hope this helps

Bill

Hi Mustard,
For what its worth I would agree with Abacus that the Roland E80 would be a good choice for all the resons Fran gave for nominating the G7. Although they have almost the identical easy to use o/s out of the box the E80 is ahead of the G7.I have just parted from my Tyros2 but have retained my Prs 3000 which is now coupled to my E80 giving an incredible range and dept of sound,
which to my ears are in the main as good as or better than my Tyros2.The o/s of the G7 and E80 are easy to master and changes on the fly are the quickest of any board I have owned.Tweaking all parts of the E80 is a breeze as is the creation of both styles and midi files.The only down side for me with my E80 is the lack of usb thumb drive.Hoever,you have easy usb connection to your computer which requires no special driver and the lack of thumb drive is somewhat compensated by up to 8 gib removalble compactflash card and floppie disk .Hope this helps

Gilbert.

I'd suggest doing a search on this forum for the models which interest you; you'll find tons of info.

Second, your title for this thread gives no idea what you seek; it's a very poor title. You'd get more response by stating what you are after. Too late for that, as you cannot edit titles.

Since you are new to arrangers even a used model would give you much enjoyment, just not state of the art. Then, after you use one awhile, you could buy what you want. Good luck.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

I agree with Bill above (SemiLive) - If you tell us more of what you are looking for either in features or type/style of music then you would get more relevant responses.

If you like dance/Trance then I'd say Korg, if you want ease of use then I'd say Yamaha, If you want something that very few others have then I'd say Ketron, if you say quality piano then I would say Roland etc etc.

There are so many factors to consider from length and touch of keyboard and weight to the availability of third party or free styles.

As you are so new I'm sure you would be blown away by a mid range roland or Yamaha like the PSR3000 and it not such an expensive mistake if and when you change later on.

It may also be possible to buy one on sale or return and just pay a re-packaging fee if you don't keep it after the first month but you should be reasonably sure it's what you want before you do this.

I have bought "blind" the Tyros1 and 2 and also a Ketron XD3 and have not been disappointed but I have a lot of experience with arrangers having played and sold them for quite a while - you really should try to get to see some models to try even if it means a long trip.

Best of luch with whatever you get - you won't look back

Kind Regards - Keith

I would recommend a PSR3000 or wait for the next 3K upgrade, but it's not top-of-the line!!!
Easy operating system, USB thumb drive (really like this feature) (I haven't used the smart media card at all), very good voices, tons of styles available, plenty of ram onboard for files, and this model is used by professionals (many on this forum). Loading of styles from thumb drive is very fast, you could just leave it plugged in.
One professional tried the Tyros, G70, and went back to the PSR3000.
The sweet flute, sweet soprano sax, sweet trumpet, can't be matched by any other board, IMO, except the Tyros.
Downsides: poor construction, organs a little weak, smaller keys (this might not bother a new user, I don't have a problem with it), only 61 keys (the 3K replacement might have 76 keys).
I own one, so I made an excellent purchase. I am a relative newbie, started with a Roland EM20, them PSR540, PSR550. I will keep the Yamaha PSR550 and PSR3000 for a long time to come.
Starkeeper
P.S. My PSR550 has an organ voice called 16+2, that I really like, and it is not on the PSR3000.

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 10-24-2006).]

More importantly as a beginner....take some serious lessons from someone experienced enough to teach you to play the way YOU want to, and practice diligently daily for a few hours a day for a few years to really see if your cut out to be a KB musician.....before wasting money on an expensive KB that is beyond your limits as a novice player....in a few years you can make a much more confident decision as to your musical direction regarding a top of the line arranger......all those fancy bells & whistles mean nothing unless your a very proficient player & technician, there is no shortcuts....in the long run you'll be glad you did.

Good Luck

The arrangers you mention are top of the line items. That is great that you might be able to afford such a fantastic machine. If you have never played an arranger for any length of time, my suggestion is to go to a music store where you can sit down and try some things out first. As good as Donny's (DNJ) advice is, it is time consuming and it sounds like you are ready to buy soon. Starkeeper's advice to go with a lesser keyboard is a good idea if you are not sure what you are going to do once you get the board. This way you will have most of the features of the better model, but may have the opportunity to trade up or to another manufacturer once you understand what it is YOU like and dislike about your first choice.

These people are correct when they say this board is best and worst - for them. All of the arrangers you mention are awesome feats of technology. What matters is what type of player you are and what you expect to do with the board you buy. Also, each manufacturer has its own 'sound.' Rolands do sound different than Yamahas or Korgs or CCasios, so your favorite board might be based on that. Recognized chord structures can be different too, and believe me that can make a big difference for some people.

------------------
Cass Pawlowski
PSR2000, VR-760

An excellent post by Donnie. I would strongly recommend his advice.
Starkeeper

Mustard already stated he tried the lower end boards[that are readily available to him]..He states he knows he wants a top of the line board[for his own reasons]..

If money is not a factor[apparently he is prepared to purchase a high end arranger], I say buy the best..You can not go wrong buying the best...You can definitely can go wrong buying a far inferior model..

I give you credit for stepping out into the "Best area"..

If I have the money, I don't need to buy a mid size car, when I know I want a luxury full size car..

No need to buy a step up product unless you can't afford it..

Buy the "Big Boy"..

Starkeeper wrote:

I would recommend a PSR3000 or wait for the next 3K upgrade
...

the 3K replacement might have 76 keys.

Starkeeper, I share your hopes and wishes about the 3K replacement but if it had 76 keys and Super Articulated voices that would be a poor marketing decision because it would outsell the Tyros 2.

On the other hand, the 3K+ has not been announced yet and there are usually 6 months interval between anncoucement and release date of Yamaha keyboards. I was left with the impression that Mr. Mustard wants a keyboard now.

My advice is to go for whichever top keyboard you like. Try out the sounds and styles and make your decision.

Also, you can listen to our contributed songs to see what can be done with the different models. There is plenty of information on the SZ to help you make your mind.

Regards,
George

Thanks for all of the nice input and observation. However, let me clarify a couple of things. First of all, I'm not the eBay type who might first purchase a lower end board and gradually sell/trade my way up the arranger board ladder. I'd much prefer getting something at the upper end and then milk it for all it's worth. I fully understand this probably isn't the most efficient way to get into this hobby, but like I said, that's kind of how I'm wired.

Furthermore, I've been waiting/saving for a looooong time. Heck, I've seen all sorts of boards come/go while waiting for $$$'s and technology to hit some sort of intersect. And, in my mind, it's time for this boy to drop anchor and get something. I almost took the dive when I30's were new, so that tells you how long I've waited. Color me slow.

Also, I certainly don't want to give the impression that $$$ isn't an issue. It is. But, like I said, I've been saving quite awhile and am ready to take the plunge.

Can anyone please clarify if the E80 and PA800 are, or will be, available here in the US prior to Christmas? I'm kind of thinking that if not, I might be leaning towards the G70.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and observations, they are much appreciated.

PS. Interesting how I'm probably conversing with folks all over the world. Truly amazing.....

Start with a psr 3000.

then you'll have an idea of what you want.(damn sure that you'll keep 3k even if you get a G70 or pa 800) after.Because it is lighter than G(lightest arranger with USB to device,VH and video out),better OS and styles than PA,it can be a great 2 nd KB.T2 can be a little too much to invest if you don't like it.3k is a good addition to G,Pa and SDs.

So even if you got G or Pa after that you'll be playing more 3k for sure.

i jump in the discussion even if i don t have it yet, my new roland e60 is on it's way to me... in couple of weeks i'll have it right here with me.
you can easily see i buy it "blindly"... there is no way to check it, at least where i live, i just give enough credit to roland, and some users that gave some review...
anyway, it seems to me that in the middle range (aproximate 800 - 1500 euro) this keyboard offers the best functions and sounds - matter of taste of course! - and it is worthy to give it a try...
i know in america e60 will be available only later this year or even next year. too bad. but is an option you should think about!

good luck!

Hi,
I agree with Fran: G 70 is probably most completed aranger keyboard on todays market.
But,...
Roland is also bigest muckworm on the market: I get from GEM hundreds of firstclass songs, bonus styles, samples..., and guess what Roland gave me? Nothing but basic things! Ya, those things are , as I said before - best.
Greets,
S.

Mustard, if you had a lot of disposable income, I would recommend getting the best board possible.

But you have been saving a long time. I think that for a beginner, you would get so much out of a PSR3000 or used Tyros or Technics, and you can save the change for something else.

I know it's off topic, but make sure you don't blow your whole wad and then not be sorry that you don't have $$ for

1. a car when yours breaks down
2. retirement
3. some other essential.

I have a wayward brother who is a beginning/intermediate guitarist. So I am looking through the lens of my experience of him. He has limited disposable income. He spent $3000 on a custom made guitar that sounds no better than my $1000 hand made Yamaha LL-400.

He makes a lot of purchases like this. Always wanting the best. But he's 47 and doesn't own a home - doesn't even have a car (He's an extreme case). Doesn't have a penny saved for retirement.

If I were a beginner and had limited disposable income, I would look at other income priorities before buying the best arranger keyboard that, with my limited skills, I will probably not enjoy any more than I would enjoy a PSR3000 or used high end arranger. I would save the rest of the money for something else. Perhaps it would be something essential that I would need. Or perhaps it would be the eventuality that my keyboard skills improve and I am ready to purchase a high end arranger keyboard. Perhaps when this time comes, there will be a model out that really blows the current models away.

Beakybird

Congratulations Adimatis, please post a review when you've had time to put it through it's paces.
Starkeeper

3. A good quality 2.1 speaker system. It will make whatever you buy come alive. When I play the Concert grand piano voice through my 2.1 speaker system, it sounds like a real piano, especially when hitting the low notes.
Starkeeper

StarKeeper any recommendations for 2.1 speakers.
I want to change from 5.1 as my new sound card does not accommodate them.

I would also like to take them on gigs.

Cousin Ken

If weight is a concern yet you still would like an Arranger with onboard speakers you may want to wait a few months for the Pa800. It only has 61 keys but that might not adversely affect you. It weighs less than 30 lbs. and the output on the speakers is 2x22 Watt which is impressive.

The Pa800 is a really feature packed arranger and most of the demos I've heard are excellent. Although I don't care much for the Saxes or Harmonica and the Grand Piano eXp was lacking for my taste but overall I am very impressed.

The price is competitive also. But I would say to play one personally before you buy so you have a better idea if it will really suit your needs or not.

Also, Winter NAMM is coming up in January and could surprise us with some other new Arranger keyboard offerings from different manufacturers like Yamaha, GEM, Roland, and Ketron. So if you can hold off till then you may find a better product that may suit you even more.

PS: You've saved your pennies and it's worth it to spend it on something that will give you years of enjoyment.

So what I'm saying is don't rush it. Do your homework and then decide.

My 2 cents..

Best regards,
Mike

If your looking to get a keyboard long term, then also have a look at the Wersi OAS arrangers and the Lionstracs Mediastation, as these are software based and can be upgraded by software and internal hardware, thus negating the need to swap the board for another one.
They also give you access to the Akai Sample library, which means that it is most unlikely that you will not be able to find any type of sound you require.
Further to the above you can also load in VST instruments, which means the world of music and sound is your oyster.
Shortly for release (November) for the Wersi OAS instruments is the new Open Art Arranger which as well as updating the style section, has an additional piece of software that will play Yamaha Styles (Including Mega voice styles etc) without conversion, and not requiring any adjustments. (From the brief descriptions available at present, it seems that it may be Yamaha software that Wersi use under licence from Yamaha, but that is fully integrated into the OAS system) which means any type of style you require will be available.
The above instruments are more expensive then Tyros 2, E80 etc, but as they are upgradeable, in the long term they work out cheaper. (e.g. if you purchased a top line Yamaha/Roland etc in 2000, you will now have had to change the boards at least twice to get the latest sounds and effects etc, and which would have cost a considerable amount, whereas you could upgrade your Wersi OAS instrument to the latest specification at a fraction of the cost)
Demos of some of the standard sounds can be found here. http://www.boduns.starlink.ru/music/DEMO%20SYNTH/wersi/ which features OAS 6, and here http://www.boduns.starlink.ru/music/DEMO%20SYNTH/wersi%20oas%20EX-1%20v,7,0 which covers the latest OAS 7.
I think all the posts above have covered most options, so it is now over to you.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 10-25-2006).]

[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 10-29-2006).]

I mentioned above about Akai Samples, so here is a link. http://www.timespace.com/index1.asp?ID=prosamples just choose Akai S1000 in the format box to see what’s available.
As to VST instruments you can use, here are some links. http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=products_us http://www.steinberg.net/149_1.html http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=961 http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm

And remember the above can be loaded and played within the instrument, with no external hardware/computers required.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Take most of the money you have earmarked for a top of the line arranger, and spend it on lessons from the best teacher in your area. Buy a mid line arranger.

There are SO many demos of great players making poor arrangers sound wonderful, and poor players making great arrangers sound like sh*t, you could learn something there.........

I know it's a matter of taste.... but take my word for it, if you want to make music as a beginner, and not spend a lot of time getting in to the keyboard you do NOT want a G70.

I dont have any experience with Korg Keyboards, so i wouldent be fair if i commented on this. The demos on PA800 sounds very nice.

I have tried a G70 and am currently the happy owner of a Tyros 2. Dont get me wrong - in the right hands the G70 sounds really good, but beginners hands and not the right ones in this situation.

I myself is a absolute beginner and I am having many many enjoyable hours of fun with the Tyros 2. You can play it right out of the box, and i promise you, you are going to spend a lot of time playing music, not programming the keyboard or being frustrated about the Keyboard-User dialog.

My best advice is, go to a music store, sit down and play the keyboards of your choice, and for each keyboard ask yourself these questions:

1. Do i have fun ?
If you dont, dont even consider the keyboard.. move on.

2. Am i inspired and want to go on ?
If you are, keep playing until after closing time.

3. Is the sound and style quality what i expected, Yes or No ?

4. Can my wife accept the price of the Keyboard ? (Remember what flowers do)

In my humble opinion these are the 4 simple questions the beginner should ask.

Listen to my hard and fun Tyros 2 work at: http://www.4shared.com/dir/921885/2df2dbb5/sharing.html

Regards

kh1

[This message has been edited by kh1 (edited 10-27-2006).]

I, too, think the T2 is a great choice, but you might want to consider that your teacher (should you get one) might want you to play some piano pieces, and a 61 note keyboard, although adequate at first, will quickly become cramped for anything more advanced....

Why not use the organ drawbars and create that same sound on the 3k? It's a snap !

Thanks for all of the replies. As several of you have suggested, lessons are probably the thing to do as although I can pick my way around on a piano, mastery is not a word that I'd associate with said skills.

Nonetheless, I still plan on acquiring an arranger. And, although I think a 3000 might be the wisest selection, it just doesn't excite. So, I'm still a bit uncertain as to what I'll get. I'd love to see/try a few keyboards, but I live near KC....not exactly the arranger capital of the world. I guess I'll just have to listen to a few more demo's and just decide. Perhaps final cost will help sway one way or the other.

Again, thanks for all of your feedback.

Yes, I will. Thanks U.D.