I have read on this forum and other forums that the acoustic piano sound on Korg synths are unuseable, yet Korg makes good pianos. What is the acoustic piano sound like on the PA60/PA80 arrangers?
Starkeeper

Starkeeper,

Who has said Korg Synth Acoustic Pianos are unuseable? Korg sells TWO expansion boards for the Triton a Keyboards board and a Classical Piano board. Both of these cards give the Triton killer Piano's amongst other keyboards patches. I use the Triton piano's for performances weekly with outstanding results.

Go and hear them for yourself, but make sure you use a Stereo Sound Source to hear Stereo Samples correctly.

Al

Even though I'm not a real huge fan of Korg.., kbrkr is right. The stock piano on the Triton might not be considered up to par with others, but you'll get much better quality painos with the expansion boards... Roland did this with the XP series.. The XP-60/80 were good boards, and came with decent stock sounds, but the real power of that keyboard was in the expansion cards. Honestly I don't think you should have to buy an expansion card to get a better piano sound on any synth... Their best piano patch should be included with the keyboards voice set...

Squeak

Starkeeper,
I think that the problem is in the difference between what comes out from Pa speakers and what comes out from line output.

The difference is probably in the auto-loudness of the Pa internal power amp.

Anyway, I've used my Pa80 in live performances, and working a little with Pa output level and mixer gain level will let you reach a nice sound.

Regarding the piano preset, it is a matter of personal taste. While I like Pa grand piano preset, when I play with my group I exclusively use my old Roland JD800 piano sound (original presets, sound #53). On the otehr side, I like (and use) a lot Pa electric pianos.


[This message has been edited by RicFreak (edited 04-30-2003).]

I didn't mean to confuse the issue. I just want to know what you think of the Korg PA60/80 acoustic piano sound?
Thanks RicFreak for your input.
Starkeeper

Hello

This is just my opinion, to my ears, no offense meant to any Korg lovers: The PA60/80 built in piano sound is very harsh and unmusical, as is most of the sounds on this KB. I prefer my PSR2000 and certainly the Tyros. I tried them side by side. At one time I thought I wanted to get a PA60/80, especially after hearing the great demos on their site. Only problem is, it doesn't sound like that playing live, or I sure as hell would have bought it. BTW, the dealer let me try it in my home with no money on it, and wanted to sell it to me for dealer cost which is $960 (for the PA60).

The guy at the store explained to me that Yamaha has great instrument sounds, where the Korg has great synth sounds. (He owns a Triton and a Yamaha (Motif I think)

You asked. Sorry to be blunt, but thats my honest opinion.

However, I look forward to hearing Korgs new board soon to come out. But I still expect it to sound like a Korg.

In the end, though really, if you like the piano sound on the PA60/80,then follow your ears, but only after doing an extensive comparison. This saved me from making a big mistake for me.

Best

Scott Langholff

Ah.... the joys and wisdom of personal taste.
Regardless of whose board you pick - Yammy, Korg, Roland or even GEM - the pianos that come on the stock boards are all OK. I said OK.... not "great", because great boils down to personal preference...

Do you want a piano sounds sampled from a $60,000 Bosendorfer grand or an $8,000 Yammy upright. I've heard some of the latter that I thought were pretty impressive. OK... choice made then ? Not enuf ambience, reverb, delay, chorus and so on. So add until the mix is how you want it and save it to another program/location!! Even replace the original if you want !! Anyways... Ta-Da !! Done.... your own personal piano sound.

If the pianos sounds on the Korg were that bad... do you think they wouldn't have figured that out yet and fixed them already - at least on the flagship synths ??

My point is that all synths have basic pianos, whether you like them or not is up to you. Just 'cus you don't like it, doesn't make it bad. Of course, there's no beating personal preference, is there !!

Regards,
Steve

Hi Kevin,
I can tell you first hand that the Korg PA-80
s Acoustic Grand Piano leaves a lot to be desired imo. I find the Yamaha PSR 2000's Grand Piano sound to be much better and more realistic sounding. But then again I didn't tweak the sound at all so if it's tweaked it might sound better. But like I said the Default PSR 2000 Grand Piano is much better imo than the Default Korg PA-80's. And after tweaking my PSR 2000's Grand Piano it is even better sounding. Yamaha did a great job when they sample WAV ROM'ed the PSR 2000's Grand Piano voice. To give you an example, I played the Tyros extensively a while back and compared it side by side with a PSR 2000 using a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pro Headphones-(AES="Audio Enginnering Society" 2002 Innovation Award Winner!) I consider the Tyros's Grand Piano having just a slight edge in sound quality compared to the PSR 2000. And I think some of that slight edge is due to the Tyros much better Key action, ie., better Key response/action= improved sound output/nuances. That gives you an understanding at just how good I think the PSR 2000's Acoustic Grand Piano sound is especially if you've heard some of those Tyros Grand Piano.mp3's floating around the Internet. On a side note I hope the Korg Pa-X has an awesome GP patch. I can't wait to get a hands on demo of it. Maybe Yamaha has something up its sleeve too!

Best regards,
Mike

Just a thought. I'd be willing to bet you a cookie that the people that like the Korg PA60/80 prefer to play and listen to mostly "modern" music, rather than the old "mellower" standards. I'd be curious to hear some conversation on that idea. (Uncle Dave, of course would not fit into this catagory, but then I also think he plays most of his own bass parts and doesn't rely much on the built in styles etc).

Scott

P.S. Again, if you like the Korg sound go for it and have fun.

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 04-30-2003).]

Of course Korg pianos seem to be behind in their piano sound. If you play piano for solo'ing, then you're better off getting something that sounds rich and authentic, e.g. PSR2000? or Roland? Digital pianos.

Anyway for some piano applications you need to sound clear and cutting though the mix when you play along with a band. Roland has a good array of bright and mellow pianos, so does Yamaha. Korg on the other hand has their pianos sounding perfect in a band situation, but it lacks depth, and thickness in a classical type solo'ing.

Of course I don't think a single piano patch can be used in all music types. It depends on the type of music and on deciding what piano's are perfect for the song.

Compared to my last few keboards.... the PA80 piano is much better. It's more dymamic and playable than:
psr2000, SD1 & XD9.
It's not the same sound as the Triton, so don't judge it by that standard. While it's not my favorite sound .... it IS substatially bettar than most things in it's price class. My favorite so far was the 9000pro or Roland products. I liked the kn7000 piano too, but I hated the kn5000.
It's all a judgement call. I hate a lot of acoustic pianos too! The tone of a piano is way too complex to sum up in one catagory. It's like comparing organ sounds ... there are millions of drawbar settings - it's impossible to "zero in" on THE Hammond sound, for example.
Play it alot, and use the system that you own ... that's the only way to tell if you will like it in a performanmce.

I agree with UD here, but with just a little tweaking I was able to make the PA80 piano sound even a bit better ( for my tastes ) by making two new performances, one of which that mixes the clasical piano sound with the grand piano, the other which mixes both sounds with a touch of the stock ac piano sound as well. I like it better than the ac piano on my PSR2000, and almost as much as the stock piano sound on my Motif ( which is basically the same as the 9k pro piano sound ). When I first played the PA80 AC piano I didn't like it all that much, but the more I used it and later tweaked it, the more it has grown on me.

AJ

Thank you all for responding.
I counted 3 positive and 3 negative responses for the Acoustic Piano Sound on the PA60/80. Thanks Uncle Dave for saying not to judge it by other Korg products. It's an arranger not a synth.
Starkeeper

Starkeeper,
I have to disagree with you on something.. I think this is where the PA-80 stands out is that it's not just an arranger, but it's also a synth as well.. The PA-80 has some pretty extensive voice editing features, much of what you'd find on top end synths.... That's whey I think the price tag on the PA-80 is well worth it because you get a good arranger, great sounds, and the power of synth as well..

Squeak

Squeak_D,
I stand corrected. Have you demoed the Korg PA60/80? What is you opinion on the Acoustic Piano sound?
Starkeeper

I think that the comment about 'modern' music likes and dislikes playing a factor in piano sound preferences can be pretty appropriate. Having listened to and owned different Korg products I was never pleased with their acoustic piano sounds - BUT - I listened more critically to the radio for awhile and heard what I believed to be Korg pianos in those mixes that sounded fine. So - context was certainly a factor. At that point I also realized why my love of Roland piano sounds did not translate into the 'best' piano sounds for different music I was playing. As a stand alone piano Korg doesn't make it for me - but in context!!

Mike

Starkeeper,
I did have a brief chance to play a PA-80 when I was in Erie PA.. I was so ticked off too.. The line for this thing was soooo long, and people were getting really impatient... Everyone only got a few minutes to try it out.. They only had one and after I finished playing it the guy behind me played it for 60 seconds and bought the thing (there were quite a few people upset after that...) The piano on the PA series isn't bad at all.. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a piano.. It's all a matter of taste I guess... I thought it sounded pretty good, but wasn't as crisp as the Yamaha's, again that doesn't mean it's bad.. The piano sounds like a Korg... However I do think more attention was paid to the synth sounds on the Korg rather than acoustic sounds as they've done with their other synths like the Triton Classic, Studio, Karma, ect... The PA series are great keybaords.. From the limited time I had to play it I did enjoy the synth sounds..

Squeak

Good points Mike. I realize that I do the same thing myself sometimes. If I am doing solo acoustic piano work, or the ac piano is the featured instrument, then I choose the ac piano from Motif, but sometimes I prefer using the PA80 ac piano in a mix.

AJ