The Pro, you have shown your true colors - you are a hopeless and true SZ member.

As for OT posts, I don't see how or why we would want to police them. Some of them have actually been good. BUT, I agree that there have been an overabundance of what I would call nuisance posts. Maybe, IMHO the newer members just didn't understand the physics, chemistry and dynamics of the Arranger Forum pre-2005.

Again, IMO some of the new members seem to have a different opinion of the scope and depth of this forum. I found (find) that I simply discount those posts and ignore them. When I read some of those questions and see the names of some of the repliers, I just press the back button and look for something else.

JIM, in some ways I feel as you do, but I notice we are both still here, as are most or all of the other pre-2005 members. We are quieter, for whatever reasons, but we are still here. I do notice when a good thread is posted the quality replies follow.

How do we get rid of poor quality posts? DON'T REPLY is one way. Comment curtly and maybe the poster(s) will eventually get the hint. As far as moving OTs to the General forum - I never go there and might miss something if someone's idea of a useless post were to get moved. We have The Bar, maybe we need to encourage its use.

Glad to see you here; stick around!

Cass

Kinda' interesting to read the above thread. As for OT stuff, personally it doesn't seem to bother 99 percent of the folks that utilize this forum. In fact, I think without some of the treads that tend to go off to OT, and many of those that begin as OT, this would be the more boring place on the Internet. Additionally, I sincerely believe that everyone that contributes to the site is talented. Granted, some are better players than others, some have a vast amount of technical knowlede, some are great singers, and there are some that have a combination of all these attributes.

Keep in mind, however, this isn't neurosurgery. For me, this has always been a fun, information site where you can get a diversity of opinions from a number of very talented individuals.

Unfortunately, there are a few individuals that have been utter and complete asses, and this becomes obvious to those who have read there scant number of offensive posts. The visit on rare occasions, tell us how wonderful they are, and for anyone that does not agree with their philosophies in life, they turn on you like a pit-viper.

Relax and enjoy life's ride through this old world--it's a very short ride at best!

Gary

I have been away for some time, but OT threads were surely not the reason for this. Perhaps it's fair to recognize that there have been less interesting topics in recent times, but I can't see a reason for concern. Every great forum community goes through these cycles. In my opinion, the 'problem' (if we can call it a problem) are not OTs (a lot of OTs fall into music related subjects) but more the fact that we fall into the trap of getting 'too personal' about our forum collegues. When we start to know each other well, there's always the danger of a shock of different (strong) personalities. And every little excuse is good for a little friction. This is not to say that we should be 'cold' towards our collegues around here, but only that I find it would be adviseable to use a certain caution and good sense to refer personaly to others (even when talking about arranger keyboards).

I enjoyed Donny's great company for such a long time, that I can't accept that silly excuse of "too much OT" for him to leave. All I can think of is that he's not doing well, otherwise he would not have this kind of reaction. In my opinion, Nigel has been doing the right thing letting it go while OT posts don't become too predominant, and creating a space for more casual conversation (The Bar). Now, back to music...

-- José.

[This message has been edited by Route 66 (edited 04-27-2005).]

This is not clear to me. All we can state is that members SAID that have left the forum because of the OT posts... That's not quite the same you are concluding, Jim. In Donny's case, I'm quite convinced that the reason he decided to tell us he was going to leave the forum has nothing to do with OT posts. He, I and many others have posted countless times OT messages, in a friendly atmosphere. And we were always able to go back to music and arranger keyboards.

While I think open & undeniable hostility should be banned from the forum with no hesitation (as it has been done by the forum moderator) - although the best way of overcoming it is to simply ignore it -, most of the times what we have been watching here are just personality frictions, usually easily distinguishable in OT threads, but apearing many times disguised (or with the excuse) of some technical discussion. Who doesn't remember some famous discussions like midi-playing versus style-playing, keyboard stands or the Music Pad Pro? I sincerely believe we will find our way to interesting discussions about arrangers, getting to accept our differences!

-- José.

I have been around here since 199?. Since almost it's start. I sit in my music store every day and several times a day I see what's being talked about. I love this forum! If the discussion is off topic and I"m not interested, I just go on to the next one. It really doesn't bother me at all. What does worry me is that guys like Uncle Dave, Dan O. , Scott Yee, Fran Carango, Don Mason and so many others over the years, really kept this forum "buzzing", and without them, it's missing something. But that's why we are having this conversation right now I guess.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

George, that's exactly the way I feel! Why can't everybody do the same... it's no big deal.

Glenn

I see no problem in it at all, i know im guilty of MANY non arranger threads in the general arranger. But i mean honestly, are you too lazy to read the topic titles and see if a subject pertains to you? Or if you click a subject and you have to wait for the page to load to realize the fact that you have no interest in the topic? Big whoop. I will try to be better, but im not promising much.

Phil

(i dont mean to raise arguments or anything, but thats my 2 cents)

And I am not interested in playing censor. Hey I will do that in the case of SPAM or offensive postings, but that's all. When it comes to content that is all up to you all. I am not going to start judging each posting. I'm not the Hall Monitor and people can talk about whatever they wish. Sure if the forums were flooded with OT postings I would move them off to The Bar but that is not what I am seeing.

If you don't like to talk with certain members then don't, it's that simple. There will always be some personality conflicts so avoid them like you would in the real world.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 04-27-2005).]

Jim,

I'm glad to see your post. I sincerely hope you will stay around. I do agree with you that OT posts can be annoying. I just don't let them bother me. If I'm not interested I'll ignore them. Most of us are guilty of posting OT stuff from time to time. I think Nigel has enough to do without being the posting cop. Sometimes members need to be reminded that this is an arranger forum and there are plenty of us who are willing to do this if the situation gets out of hand.

That was a great picture of you and Scott!

Tom

Ok - so the consensus is that there is no problem with OT posts, they're just annoying. And people don't leave because of OT posts, even if they say they do.

The primary reason people with something positive to contribute come to this forum is because we have arrangers in common... it's what defines us as a community and differentiates us from other musicians. Yet we have no answer for people who come in here with no regard for arrangers except maybe to show them our apathy. The rules under which this forum operates is ten years old according to Nigel. Those that disagree with those rules aren't exactly shown the door but they find it on their own.

I think we can do better and have been working towards a compromise solution, even if it has been a solo gig so far. I'm willing to try one further compromise: could we consider an FAQ or a Sticky at the top to let people know what the purpose of this forum is, or does it even have one? I don't mean that as a put-down... what is the stated purpose of the Arranger Forum? Has a forum FAQ ever been drafted? Now this has to be as "OT-lite" solution as there is so surely we can come up with something to address this issue. Stickies and FAQ's are very common for forums to have... the proposal is on the table for discussion.

And all of you that want me to stay - that's very kind of you, but how about contributing a little more than kind words of encouragement? I know that there has to be ways for us to improve this forum. If the arranger world is so slow currently then now is the time to work on ways to make the forum better before we get hit with the next wave of information, or trolls. Perhaps a second moderator like many other forums have? Some visible rules of conduct? Some original ideas to improve the forum? Anyone?