Here goes:
This forum really makes my butt laugh lately. A forum is for posting both positive and negative remarks. If someone doesn't want to see anything negative then I feel that they should not post their work/links on here without considering the outcome.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm sick of everyone expecting positive remarks all the time on SZ. When someone puts something negative, everyone else seems to go off on one. It wasn't like that a while back, so what has changed?
I've said it before, if remarks were postivie all the time, everyones head on here would be up their rears by this time next year (I think some are almost there already lol).
The owner of SZ does a great job but even he must agree that you have to take the rough with the smooth when asking for comments.
With regards to Bebops posting of the free stylewarehouse disk, I've had comments back because I posted that these styles were terrible (on the Technics forum and on here).
This is my opinion and obviously others differ but for me they fall well below the quality I would expect to use in a live environment with a singer. They simply are not worth it in my opinion considering that free styles exist on the internet of a much higher and useable quality. It is not me having a go at the creator of the styles, I don't even know who he/she is.
So can people on here tell me what is wrong with me voicing my opinion on a forum, surely that is why I joined SZ so I can put my opinion across be it positive or negative?

AMEN! Listen up people and hear Craig.

Craig,
I think it is usually not so much what a person says as it is how he says it. We are communicating without the benefit of inflection, facial expressions, body language, etc., and often with persons to which English is not their primary language.
For example, I could say, "I'm glad you like your keyboard and that it does what you want, but my experience with that model was that it wasn't as reliable as I'd wished, and that some of the sounds were outdated, at least to my ears".
Or I could say, "I can't believe you really like that piece of junk. It breaks down every time you turn it on and sounds like crap."
Now I've put it on a personal level and most likely antagonized the original poster, for no good reason. However, if I were to say that same thing in person, with a big smile on my face, and maybe a gentle punch on the arm, it would be taken in the right way.
Sarcasm, subtle humor, double meanings, etc., are hard to communicate via the written word.
Just food for thought. Hope nobody chokes on it. (O.K., that's humor, here's the smiley face Woops, hope that didn't sound condescending. I really meant to be helpful.
See what I mean?
DonM

P.S. By the way, I agree for the most part about the style disks. I have several and have found very little I could use. But I haven't tried the Tyros ones.


[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 01-30-2006).]

Well said!!!

Another concideration is that if you give a negative comment on a work and do so in a harsh way you should expect to get negative comments back. Just like if you post a work that may not be good you should expect to get some negative comments.

Very well put, Don.

Craig,we come here because we like what we hear, but also different opinions providing they are constructive are beneficial, that is how you grow, Bad Critisism this is CRAP, GOOD Critisism this is good/bad CRAP BECAUSE???.
Your opinion was highly valued in regards to mediastation ,we feel you gave it a thorough testing within your capabilities giving the pro,s and negatives. there is an old saying ,you can please some of the people, oh shoot ( i nearly said sh-t he he)you know what i am saying, mike

Hello:

I'm pretty new to the boards and what's a little bickering here and there. But I will say that sometimes this group is like a bunch of little old ladies or little children i.e. My toy is better than yours!! Big deal! From what I can see and hear you are all very good musicians and I'm sure better than I am. You need to respect one another. Bottom line your all first class people and are good at what you do. It's big egos that get in the way and I've seen one of 2 here. Nuff said! Salud!

[This message has been edited by Pacesetter (edited 01-30-2006).]

Thanks for all the replies, they are very informative and I appreciate the lot of them.
I've decided to stop using Synthzone and will concentrate on another couple of forums instead.
Synthzone has been great for the last possibly 6 years? It's certainly gone down hill these last few months so I'm on vacation from now on lol Take care

Those who know me can reach me on Skype/MSN/Yahoo or send private mail on the Tyros 2 forums I visit.

[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 01-30-2006).]

Craig,

Yours are well articulated, informed opinions, which indicate a strong commitment to music and a vast understanding of interpersonal issues, business related issues
and a refreshing proclivity to "tell it like it is."

I'll miss all that if you decide to leave.

Russ

P.S. you're right. Occasionally, tunes are posted on here that are just awful...tempos...choice of instrumentation...
lead lines...changes...vocals, and yet no one comments about the shortcomings, including me. I'm not at all sure that our lack of honest critique is the best thing to "further the cause".

Sometimes a terrible post is an improvement for the poster, Do we tell him, he is still terrible or do we point out the improvements.
Sometimes when we don't know the history we want to jump right in and yell "that sucks" but maybe others are trying to be encouraging because they see the improvement.
All of us here are not professionals, or experienced or even entertainers or keyboard players.
I have been in and out of this forum, check back often, or not, it always puzzles me why people feel they have to make the grand announcement "you have not agreed with me so I choose to leave" and they usually have to take a parting shot to let us all know how superior they think they are.
just go quietly...and preserve your dignity

------------------
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone
qqqwq@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 01-30-2006).]

Craig,

If you leave how will we ever know the status of your butt?

Tom

mikeathome1 you said All of us here are not professionals, or experienced or even entertainers or keyboard players.
Most people on here play professionally and a few also own music shops. Fair enough there's the few amateurs, has beens, never will be's, midi file users, fakers and pretenders etc thats what made this forum so good, a right mixture of people and nationalities.
You also say just go quietly...and preserve your dignity No need to preserve it as its already in tact but thankyou for the kind words. I've been thinking about leaving for a few months and this matter regarding comments about my posting to the free disk has nothing to do with it, that's just the icing on one huge cake.
Tom Cavanaugh says Craig, If you leave how will we ever know the status of your butt?
Well sorry Tom but my butt will have to stay the way it is lmao
Seriously cheers for all those that did care what I posted be it positive or negative.
Signing out, beam me back up Scotty.



[This message has been edited by Craig_UK (edited 01-31-2006).]

Sorry to see you go,Craig...I always enjoyed your forthrightness.
Hopefully you will return in the near future.
Ian

Very good, Don. The difference between written and face-to-face communication is often demonstrated in the sentence:

"I didn't tell John you were stupid."

When we say the sentence with emphasis on each word, we get seven completely different messages.

1. Emphasizing "I" implies that someone else did.
2. Emphasis on "Didn't" is an emphatic denial.
3. Emphasis on "tell" could mean someone implied...
4. Emphasis on "John" implies someone told someone else...
5. Emphasis on "you" implies someone is implying that someone else is stupid.
6. Emphasis on "were" implies someone is saying someone IS stupid.
7. Emphasis on "Stupid" implies someone is saying someone else is ugly...fat...mean, etc.

This is a good way to emphasize the nuances of the communication process.


Russ

Hi Craig. Here's beaming you back up on the Synthzone General Arranger forum. I too appreciate your candid forthrightness here and hope you stay, or at least return soon. - Scott

I am saddened that members feel obliged to leave this forum as a response to the extremely bad behaviour and language exhibited by a minority of posters. It is equally saddening that such language and behaviour is deemed necessary by the culprits. I hope that this proves to be a temporary phase that is grown out of, and I intend to hang around so that I can continue to be educated by the many posters who are doing this out of kindness rather than as a meaningless demonstration of the crasser end of the english vocabulary.

I don't mind when people tell me I'm talking rubbish, so long as it is said politely and with some reasoning. Criticism must be constructive or it is useless.

So, Craig if you must leave us, could you at least pop back now and then to see how we are getting on?

Best wishes

John

10 print "Craig don't go, but if you must, then come back another time
20 goto 10
Theodore

Nahh, nothing wrong as far as I can see, is'nt it what we have done all the time regardless
what part of the SZ or other forums we post at?
If it's the comments regarding the Free Styledisks who made you leave, it's sad, cause as I
did mention at the Technics-forum, we all have different taste, needs and skills, we all hear,
see and feel things in different ways.
Maybe that's some of the reasons that we have selected different equipment to play and explore
the various software or create selfmade stuff at?

Anyway, there will always be more than one way to put words together, just as peoples way of
read and apprehend whats written.
And things who don't fit in to my bad taste might be great stuff for other users, whomever it
is who "judge and range" the quality.

If the SZ forums grows to be a place for "Only People Who Agree In All What Said And Written
By Certain Members Allowed Forum" it sure would be quite boring, as well as keep new users away
from signing in.

So my 2 cents would be, keep on the Happy Playing and Posting.

GJ

Theo, this is a very bad style. Please let me correct you:

while(1) {
print "Craig don't go, but if you must, then come back another time";
}

George

Why do people have to announce their departure?
Just go, no need to let the world know, unless it's a way to make a statement. But that you can still do without the "I'm outta here" post.

All this bickering is a sign of not enough going on in one's musical life I believe. Maybe the arranger community has become too stereotypical, one board is as good as the other one, and not much else to discuss. Songs are being posted only to show off peoples voice, because the styles aren't different to to anything else, and therefore not interesting really. Unless someone has made that style using one of Jørgen's fantastic software programmes. Jørgen does a fantastic job for the Yamaha Arranger community by the way, and you never see him bickering here. Because he is probably too busy making music and sw programmes for people like us. I myself have discovered a whole new world with sequencers, plug-ins, loops, live recording etc, and use this along with the arranger. I hardly have time to read half the posts here.

But, in respect for Nigel that keeps this place going, drop the bickering posts, and if you decide to leave, just leave and keep it to yourself.

George,
poor me, I never went past BASIC.... or maybe Pascal and Clipper.

royandreno it was not a big announcement on my part, but I guess others who have left announce their intentions because if they just left the friends that they have made on Synthzone would simply wonder where they had gone. It's not some macho 'I'm out of here posting'
Anyway thankyou to those who replied. I've had some lovely private e-mails which I never expected, so it's nice to know I am appreciated in some little corner on SZ
Also to my buddie Scott Yee, cheers mate for the talk on Skype. I've decided that after being on here for what must be about 6 years on and off, it's far too much to give up just for the sake of some kind of misunderstanding/posting on one of the other forums. I've had lots going on lately in my life, some not so good (as we all do at times) so whether the style I wrote my reply was different to my usual input I'll never know, but as Take That would sing I'm 'Back for Good' I'll still be honest with my postings but maybe pick words differently lol

Great, Craig!
Good to have you back!
Like I said, I think we all owe Nigel one for putting up this forum. There is always an arse around on the zone, but life is full of them anywhere, everyday, anyway.

Now, let's talk music!

Craig: Glad to see you've decided to stay and ride the Synthzone wave. Surfs up! It's all good. - Scott

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-08-2006).]

Wolf was a great bloke, pictures of him unpacking his T2 were right funny and his songs/singing were top notch.

Craig .. glad you're sticking around ...

I too have thought about leaving but "... I HAVE NO WHERE ELSE TO GO !!! ..."
t.

Not only do I not have anywhere else to go . . . but WHO'D HAVE ME ANYWAY!

Good to see you back, Craig!

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-08-2006).]

Yep, I remain in touch with my buddy the Wolf. He's been keeping busy with his live band gigs, as well as currrently putting together a demo. Things are looking good for him. - Scott

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-08-2006).]

Hi Craig:

Glad to see you've decided to hang around. To follow up on your original question, I think most of us seek positive replies because the world we dwell in has become so negative. Personally, I visit the "Zone" to learn from the master Arrangers. Guys like Don Mason, Scott Yee, Uncle Dave, Chico Brasil and others. I'm not here to fight or argue. I just want to play my arranger keyboard better so I can use it to help me write that elusive hit song. The friendships we develop here enrich our otherwise drab and mundane lives. To coin a phrase by a person much wiser than me, "It's easier to catch a Bee with Honey than with Salt."

Regards,

I wasn't going to comment on this post, and like many similar threads I tended to let it die on the vine. As much as I believe individuals enjoy positive comments, there is one word that would describe what I, and most everyone on this and other forums would like to see--Civility. It doesn't take any more effort to be civil than it takes to be cruel or nasty, you don't need a high level of eduction to be a good person, and the rewards are obvious.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Great post,Gary!

If I may add,"it is the Weak who are usually the ones who are cruel and nasty...
...Gentleness and civility is to be expected only from the Strong."
Ian