Hi!

This is my first post but I've read this board for a short while.
I've played electronic organs for 25 years, Italian, Hammond, Yamaha, but my current organ has past 10 years and I've decided to buy an arranger keyboard instead.
While there is no dealers in my area I'm doing research on the webb before taking my car out for a one day trip.
So far I've found out that I've got PSR9000, KN6500, PA80, SD1 and VA7 to choose from. Internal speakers or 76 keys are secondary issues. I play mostly pop, rock, ballads, gospel, country but also love playing hymns using just organ vocies. Most important to me would be good styles in those areas, good solo voices and good organ voices. I don't need vocal harmonizer but want to have aftertouch. I will probably not use any sequencer much but want to be able to load lot of new styles.
Can someone give me some advice on which, lets says maybe two, boards that may be most interessting for me to check out.
Have I missed any board in my list?
Anything special I should think of, as a keyboard newbie, when visiting a dealer?
Can I expect the dealer to be able to give me advice for my needs and "show what the boards goes for" before trying myself?

Thanks
BH

BH,
You opened up a can of worms for all of us to climb out of the walls, all with subjective opinons as to what we like. In arranger keyboards I've had a PSR 9000 and now have a PA 80.
I think both are excellent arranger boards, but I will key in on one thing you said and that is the organs....I think the PA has better organs digital drawbars etc. I think the 9000 has better pianos, the rest is probably a closer coin flip.
I think the PA 80 operates a bit easier for me than my 9000 did. The PA has tons of downloadable styles, today I think Fabio put 200+ styles up for download free from all different genres. I think the final decision will come down to you sitting and playing both for sound and user friendliness, because you'll like some things better on one then something better on the other etc.
Not knowing a whole lot about you off the top of my head, I would think the VA 7 might be more than you're looking for a bit more difficult to get around, a bit more expensive than the PA anyway and I think you'll find it has more features on it then I think you need or want.
As far as having a salesperson that is knowledgable.....in my experience don't count on it, do your homework and just call on them for two things. 1. Could you plug this in please 2. How much.
Terry

BH,
Where do you live? Are you close to Southern California? Come see me! I'll show you and demonstrate every keyboard you have mentioned except for the Technics because I don't sell technics. Jocko mentions the PA80 and the PSR9000 being less expensive than the VA7, but now the VA7 is the same price at my store as the PA80 ($1995.00). You need to check out all of these. Under $2000.00 check out the VA7, VA5 and PA80. Over will be the technics and Yamaha. The Solton is also in this price range. You can't go wrong with any of these products.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

George,
I meant no offense. I think you know as well as I do though...you're a rare breed indeed. Pretty much up here, if I read the info off the site, I know a lot more about the equipment than the sales people do. After reading your review of the VA 7 though....you sure don't fall into that catagorey.
I'm in northern Ca. Sacto. and I can't find a VA 7 up here to try, no one stocks them.
I like my PA real well though.
Terry
(aka Jocko)

[This message has been edited by Jocko (edited 11-10-2001).]

Hallo BH I use Solton X1 still and I suggest you try one out IE Solton X1 - I am saying this because there will be a big price diff and X1 is a great arranger. I am starting to see reasons to go to a newer type but I recently got a new amp and a new
Guitar which I made and I am getting a very good Banjo I have piano also and I cannot justify any more expense at presen. Dont rush it if I may say so and also I'm sure you know that all of em will sound different on different amp and speaker systems. Insist on a full test of each. Best wishes Pierce in Ireland.

George!
I would sure have liked that but I'm in Europe.
The store in my closest town got a webbsite and the prices here are about USD 2100 PA-80, 2400 PSR9000, 2800 VA-7. I have not yet found any dealer of Technics and Solton. I will contact ther agents to find out any dealer.
There are lot of information, regarding specs, to be find for Yamaha. I've even been able to download manual. Roland information is very bad. George, maybe you could tell me if the VA-7 has got digital drawbars as the Yamaha and Korg.

Hello BH.
I live in Belo Horizonte, Brasil and at last years(20)working as profi musician and music software teacher.I had played a extensive amount of arr. kbs as Yamaha(5700,6700,6000,
630,8000,730,740,9000)Korg(I3,I2,I30)Roland(E20,30,70,86,96,G800,G1000,Em2000,VA7)and Technics(1500,1600,5000),each one with good and bad features.The dream Kb would have:
-Easy operation and good voices as a Yamaha 9000
-Friendly screen as a Technics
-Good styles as a Korg or Solton
-Good Midi files operation as a Roland.
-Excellent harmony interface as 9000.

and NO!!!

-Weight of Yamaha 9000.
-Korg's difficulty to read fast change of chords(sometimes a broken change)
-Technics incapacity to make midi files with
real time acc and bad acc. sounds with transpose.
-Touch screen , variphrase(a expensive joke)and poor styles of Roland VA7.
I think that you must read all George Kaye and AJ evaluations.
Another important topic is evaluate the technical support in your country.

Brazilian regards
Chico

Swede? Bengt is a swedish name!?

Krix

Krix, you are observant! Northern part.

Which landscape, city or village?


Krix

ChicoBrazil: "Another important topic is evaluate the technical support in your countr".

He is Right^2.

Solton? GEM?
What counts in Swedala: Ya, Rol, Korg, (Tech).
Wait a year: Ya PSR 10k!!!???

Krix, the Swede from Linkopia;

BH,

I'm sure you'll find much information you need for this on this forum. One thing I somehow missed when I was doing my search was PA80's poor fill-ins and abrupt voice truncation when changing the patch. Don't get me wrong; I love most of my PA80. I just wanted to make you aware of that just in case they are important to you too and so you see if they are ok with you. I like the way YAMAHA arrangers interact with the user.

Good luck!
Shiral

I too am new at this and interested in buying my first keyboard arranger, mainly for home and casual performance.
From what I have read over the past month I have decided on the Korg PA80 or the Yamaha PSR2000. Below are my 5 feature priorities (1 most important) and want to know if the higher cost of the Korg is justified:

1. Sound Quality- Is Korg really the first mid priced Arranger that is built on a professional sound engine? WOuld Yamaha use the PSR sound engine in their professional keyboards? (I know sound is subjective but overall impression is what I am looking for)
2. Keyboard Style Versatility- are we stuck with the built in styles; who has better support new styles; which has the better quality styles overall?
3. Inputs/Vocal effects/Karoake- Does one of these kayboards do an abviously better job when a mic is plugged in? Does the Yamaha have only 1 input? Which has the better Karoake functions?
4. Built-in speakers- is one obviusly better than the other or are they both similar in this area?
5. Sequencer- which has the better grade sequencer for importing/exporting and editing reqular sequences?

The difference in price becomes more apparent if I have to but the vocal/guitar input board for the Korg. What are some of the best prices in the USA?

Its a pretty tough request and I honestly dont know what to expect except that I honestly appreciate all the info I have already learned from this forum

Hi TGALF,
I had a PA80 for a couple of months. Now have a PSR2000. Must say up front I am slightly prejudiced for Yamaha because they are so much easier to play in real time.
Anyway I'll give my opinions of your questions, for what they are worth. (FREE)


1. Sound Quality- Is Korg really the first mid priced Arranger that is built on a professional sound engine? WOuld Yamaha use the PSR sound engine in their professional keyboards? (I know sound is subjective but overall impression is what I am looking for).

Korg sounds are good, but so are Yamaha---very subjective. There are some sounds I prefer on each keyboard.

2. Keyboard Style Versatility- are we stuck with the built in styles; who has better support new styles; which has the better quality styles overall?

Thousands of style for Yamaha are freely available. There are also lots of Korg styles around, but not all work easily in the PA80. Korg styles are generally more involved, longer (up to 12 measures). Yamaha styles are simpler but more versatile.
Yamaha has greater selection of fills, intros, endings. If your making your own styles, Korg allows you to build differing patterns according to chord type (for example, minor, major 7 minor7, dim, etc.)
Yamaha allows extensive editing, and seems to be a little easier. Again, I'm used to working with Yamaha.

3. Inputs/Vocal effects/Karoake- Does one of these kayboards do an abviously better job when a mic is plugged in? Does the Yamaha have only 1 input? Which has the better Karoake functions?

Yamaha wins the mic question hands down, in my opinion. Has dedicated mic e.q., effects, compressor, noise gate. Only one input, but you can run a line in from a mixer and use as many mics as you want.
Korg has two inputs. The harmonizer on the Korg is primitive compared to Yamaha. It sounds good, but there are no options to change harmony types, gender, number of voices--no editing of harmonizer, at least yet. The Korg recognizes .kar files in addition to .mid files. .kar files must be converted to .mid before Yamaha will read them. Korg has an add-on Video Out board available. 2000 doesn't. It is built into 9000 and Pro.

4. Built-in speakers- is one obviusly better than the other or are they both similar in this area?

Both are good. I think 2000's are louder, but this may not be correct.

5. Sequencer- which has the better grade sequencer for importing/exporting and editing reqular sequences?

I didn't really explore either sequencer much, other than to play back. The Korg has two sequencers so you could fade in/fade out songs. Yamaha has Easy Record mode. Just punch a button and start recording. You can later go back and add more tracks. I don't remember if Korg has this feature. Probably does.

The difference in price becomes more apparent if I have to but the vocal/guitar input board for the Korg. What are some of the best prices in the USA?

2000 is around $1100-1200, depending on package. Don't know Korg best price.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Other observations: Korg has Joystick Controller, Yamaha has two wheels. I sorta like the Joystick, but am used to the wheels.
Yamaha has two foot assignable foot pedals. With Korg, you will definitely need the optional 5-switch pedal. I had trouble finding one locally, and they are rather expensive.
Korg main pluses (to my way of using it): Joystick, live drum sounds.
Yamaha main pluses: Vocal functions, ease of operation.
Good luck with your decision. You really need to spend time with each of them before you decide what's best for you. There are several places that will give return or exchange privileges.
DonM

I agree in many ways with Don's evaluations of the boards, but he and I also both understand that what features are important to one person are less so to another. I think some of what makes certain features important depends too upon what you would primarily use your board for.

You can get a real good feel for what these boards can do on this forum, but I think the last thing that Don said his post is also the most important as well. I also highly recommend that you to listen to and demo both boards for yourself if at all possible, preferably on a day when you have plenty of time to experiment with both. If you are real fortunate, you might live near a guy like George Kaye or Dan O'Neill, someone who not only sells the boards, but actually knows how they work, and is willing to really work with you, but too often this is not the case.

Having said that, I lean a bit toward the Korg overall for sounds and styles, but will generally agree with Don that the Yamaha seems easier to use. ( In fairness though the PA80 has more functions overall, and like Don, I'm more used to Yamaha's O'S in general ). The PA80 is also due for a major O/S update shortly, which promises to add sampling and some other function add ons as well. To answer your 5 priorities more specifically, here goes my opinion for what it's worth. I own both boards and have them sitting here in this room right now.

1. Both have good very samples and sounds. I
use guitar sounds a lot and in a composition I can get the PA80s to sound more realistic. The other 2 areas in sound where I think Korg wins is on drums and synth sounds. The rest are a tossup for me, ( both excellent ) although I might even lean slightly toward the Yamaha on saxes and on the acoustic pianos. The "pro" factor really comes in the editability, particularly if you like to modify synth sounds. I think the PA80 has the best synth edit ( sound editing ) capabilities of any major arranger on the market, and is comparable to many "pro" workstations / synths.

2. I always thought that Yamaha styles ( even in the 9000 to an extent ) were a bit canned sounding, but then again I play a good bit of jazz and fusion and almost any styles really limit what I can do in those genres. They would work very well for an entertainer playing live to a crowd. The 2000 styles seem a bit better too, than some of Yamaha's other boards. I like the PA80 styles better overall, but one criticism is only 2 fills per style, although with the new o/s there will be 4, just like the in the 2000.
Both pattern sequencers ( for making and changing styles ) are very easy to use for me, and both give good detailed functions.

3. I'm not generally a singer per se, and don't use the vocal functions that often, so I'll defer to what Don and others have said, meaning that overall I think they prefer the 2000.

4. Both are good as Don says. I think he might be right too, the 2000's seem a bit louder, but both produce excellent sounds.
Both boards still sound pretty much the same when I put them through studio monitors or record them, which tells me that the built in speakers offer an excellent accounting to the true sounds that the boards are putting out.

5. Both have very good sequencers for arranger boards, although Korg's will not have editing down to note level until the new O/S comes out. Still, for me, neither will replace my software sequencers. Editing with a mouse and a dedicated sequencer is always quicker and easier for me, but for the first time, I'd have to say I have 2 boards that I can do very useful sequencer work on without having to be hooked up to a computer.

Final thoughts:

No doubt the PSR2000 is an excellent value for its price. Both boards sound good and I'm not willing to part with either. For me, if I want a board that is closer to a pro workstation / synth in features and functions, then the PA80 is it hands down, but at a savings of several hundred dollars, for home use, use as a solo performer, and ease of use in general, you can't go wrong with the 2000 either. I much prefer the joystick over the pitch wheel too. I have had to replace pitch wheels over the years in different boards because I play them pretty hard, but I've never had a problem with the j/s on my Korg M1 after years of use and abuse.

Good Luck,

AJ

I learned enough already and no need for more replies cept one question below.. thanks a mil!!!

Thanks DonM and AJ, a tremendous help.
I have just one more question since you both are familiar with the Yamaha O/S.

If I were to get the Yamaha, am I able to attach say a great sounding GM2 module and bypass the internal sounds and still have full functionality of the arranger and sequencer functions?

My local store does not yet have the PSR2000 and everytime I get a chance to go, the PA80 is hogged by several onlookers. I did get to hear the sounds and it sounds, well alot like a Korg triton although the builtin speakers dont do it justice.
I know I have to sit with both for a couple of visits (get there early).

From checking around the web it seems like about a $800-$1000 penalty(?) to choose the Korg when all is said and done because of the options are many and extra while the yamaha are few with most of its functionality built-in.
Thanks again,
tgalf

Midi out assignment to a module should present no problems. There are several built-in midi templates, and space for storing your own.
Don

Thanks for everything AJ and DonM; I am done with the inquiry for now. Just want you to know I appreciate it.
I got an hour or so in the PA80 today and I was impressed with the sound; speakers; styles and the overal feel of the keyboard itself.
I will wait till they get the Yamaha on the floor and compare them. I already know what to look for based on all your comments to the other posts.
No more for this post.
thomas