mike

Yes, So Far Away has a PPQN of 1920. A program called GNMIDI will display correct timing resolutions even beyond 1920 PPQ. Other Software programs are slowly catching up in their ability to recognize and accurately report higher resolution Sequences. Apparently Cakewalk 9 and Sonar 1 (according to AJ) haven't reached that point yet.

Here is the link to GNMIDI: http://www.gnmidi.com/gnmidi.zip

After you install the program just open a Midi file (File/Open) and you will see the PPQ rate listed under "Midi resolution".

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by Idatrod (edited 10-25-2003).]

There is no doubt about this in my mind Scott. I've done plenty of studio work for myself and other musicians, and while I may not qualify as an expert in the purest sense because I don't do it full time, I've worked alongside pros that do and agree as well.

Here is another thing to look for, and the reason I don't use XG works any more, even though it has 480 ppq. In my last post I said, "Hiccups happen when too many events are all trying to happen at the same time. Midi can't do that. It does a good job of faking it when you have good resolution and a fast machine, but midi logic dictates that each event has to occur in a sequential order. "

I should have said that SOME midi programs do a good job of quickly processing the event changes ( which happen of course in sequential order.. not at the same instant ) . XG works freaks out if you try to have too many cc / event / note changes occuring at the same instant. You can hear it... but you can also see it visually by watching the time line that travels along the piano roll or measures window "stumble" at the spot where the changes occur. I was hoping that it was because I had a slow machine before ( 800 mhz and 256 mb ram ) that maybe the program needed a better environment, but I also know from experience that most midi programs that don't have a lot of other things going on ( audio playback.. midi effects, vst etc,... ) won't usually tax a computer very much at all. As I had suspected, it didn't improve at all when I switched to a 2.4 gig, 512 mb ram machine. Unfortuantely, Jammer Pro ( both 4 and 5 ) stumble like this too at times, although not nearly as much.

This never happens in Sonar or N Track studio, and I can run midi and DX effects galore ( VST in Ntrack as well ) , along with audio playback and no timing problems. I haven't used the SQ1 software that came with the Motif ES very much yet, but like XG works.. it hosts my software plug in voice editors for the ES, so if it works well I'll be pretty happy.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 10-25-2003).]

Ah, you are correct sir! Thanks for tip.

mike

Fasten your seatbelts!!!!!

Here we go again..

Naw ..... we're all good. No shouting match here!

I think higher ppq's, higher resolutions, the higher sampling rate of quarter notes are a sign of the times. As CPU's get faster and more powerful, we'll see sampling rates go up. As we continue to strive for sonic nirvana from a man-made device, we'll see sampling rates go up. And what do we the end user get from this technological advancement?

How 'bout Megavoices for starters? New voice banks, new control events, new types of responses from said voice banks when receiving said control events. All in the name of what? More realistic sound reproduction.

I can just imagine the sound engineers saying, "Sure we can reproduce the subtle nuances of the resonances of a steel guitar string after being plucked by a nylon pick." But there's a lot of information stored in just one second of that kind of waveform. If I'm going to duplicate that info electronically, I need many, many placeholders in time to store the necessary control events that will manipulate the sound waveform being generated. Hence, increased sampling rates or ppq's.

And I'm just talking the keyboard here. I haven't added the player to the equation. That's a bigger can of worms for another day.

mike

Hi Guys,
aren't most styles fairly heavily quantized anyway in arranger keyboards? At least the ones I studied in my 9000 pro appeared to be.

What's the smallest denomination that the psr2100 or tryros can quantize to ?
My KN7 the lowest quantize note is a 32nd or a 32nd triplet.

Power tracks pro Audio same, except that it has a variety of clock resolutions all the way up to 960ppq.

I did a test on a psr 2000 style
The clock at 960 ppq show the following 3 notes at
1-02-000
1-02-040
1-02-120


The clock at 96 ppq show the following 3

1-02-000
1-02-004
1-02-012

So I'm just wondering what difference it makes. The 96 ppq still hasn't bunched any of the notes together in the above style.

Surely most professionals would use a p.c. sequencer for serious recording?
For as little as $30 to $40 You can buy a p.c. sequencer with a 960pp resolution ( Power Tracks Pro Audio 8)and have the ability to include audio tracks to boot.

The onboard sequencer on my 9000pro left a lot to be desired as far as editing features go, and except for the higher resolution on the psr 2000 the sequencer didn't appear to have any additional editing features.
As far as I was able to tell it doesn't make use of the high resolution available for it's styles either? The ones I've studied, I doubt it would have made any difference as to whether they'd been created in 96 ppq resolution or 1920 resolution.


best wishes
Rikki



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-25-2003).]

The Tyros and PSR 2000/2100 can quantize down to a 1/32 note. The Tyros and PSR 2000/2100 can also quantize 1/4 note, 1/8 note, and 1/16 note triplets and also 1/8 note + 1/8 note triplet and 1/16 note + 1/16 note triplet. What this essentially does, ie., [1/8 note {+} 1/8 note triplet] is it allows you to quantize two different note values at the same time, without compromising the quantization of either one. For example; if you use the 1/8 note + 1/8 note triplet setting, both the straight and triplet notes will be quantized correctly. This would be used to get a triplet feel in the rhythm along with the straight notes; making the sequence have a more natural and lifelike sound to it, ie., (not so much computer generated and artificial sounding). Also the Tyros, PSR 2000 and PSR 2100 allow 'partial' strength quantization too as apposed to full strength or also called 100% quantization.

Best regards,
Mike

Thank you Mike,
in that regard at least, the kn7 & psr's are similar. They both have similar quantize values & functions ( but not clock resolutions).

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Idatrod:
[B] The Tyros and PSR 2000/2100 can quantize down to a 1/32 note.

I'm not sure, but I would suspect that factory programmed 'internal keyboard styles' aren't created on the associated arranger's style pattern hardware sequencer at all, but instead, recorded using a high end sequencer program such as Cakewalk Sonar, Logic Audio, or Cubase, which not only supports the highest midi timing note resolution available, but also includes other elaborate softwre midi recording & processing capabilities not available on a hardware sequencer. When the completed style pattern is subsequently imported into the keyboard, the midi timing resolution is automatically reduced to whatever the maximum ppq midi note resolution supported by that keyboard. - Scott