Scott, Donny is listening more to what I have to say....lately..

Fran definitly knows his stuff

Scott.....To answer your question I'll be brief,
I have sold one of my 3k's.....I am still using a 3k on stage at this time for the last year, but honestly, Although it has held up exceptionaly fine and is in excellent condition because I pamper all my gear & is in tip top shape all kept in cases & sounds wonderful, Im just putting up with its many "quirks" for MY STYLE of playing & performing, there are certian things I like & some that I don't & I dont want to start a Tissy fit here. But after experiencing a great Demonstration by Prince AJ I am exploring other avenues, a Midjay & Roland 76 key controller is in my very near future possibly an A-30, A-33 or the newer A-37. I also antto weed myself of using a laptop also for many reasons... Equipment, & Ideas have been CHANGING VERY RAPIDLY thru the years & it's just about time to move on.
We'll see ?




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-17-2005).]

Warning: Based on what Fran himself stated below, this might be a cause for concern :

Why would you want your autocomp to recognize rootless chord voicings? The autocomp should play roots to make correct bass lines. When you play in autocomp mode, your hands are two different musicians. Your left is your bass player, and your right is your soloist. Just play regular vanilla chords with your left, and use the hip rootless/quartal voicings with your right.

One of the advantages of having autocomp recognizing rootless chord voicings is that as a keyboard player, you could play a solo as you would if you were playing in a jazz combo (drums, bass, piano and or guitar/horns.)

If you were performing a solo in a jazz combo, you would mostly comp rootless chord voicings with the left hand and do a solo in the right hand.


With an arranger that has rootless chord voicings as a feature, you would not have to change your chord voicings technique much. In full auto comp mode, you can still use the cordless voicings in the left hand and do a solo with the right hand (with a solo instrument like organ, guitar, sax….) This way you still get the root of the chord being played because even if you are using rootless chord voicings, the arranger is smart enough to play the correct root of the chord with the bass sound.

If you wanted to do the same thing with an arranger that does not have rootless chord voicings, you would have to do a lot of major chord voicing adjustments that go out of the norm of playing jazz. To me that is too much work. In addition, you just can not get the same sound as if you were using rootless chord voicings.

A D minor 9th voiced rootlessly on an arranger as F1 C2 E2 is and sounds completely different from a make do voicing such as D1 E1 F1 C2 or F1 C2 D2 E2. Not to mention those chords where you have to play the root note, feels very strange in the hands.


In addition to full piano mode, this is another way I would play the arranger using rootless chord voicings. In autocomp mode, I would use a stile with just the drums and the bass. I would have a left hand sound with a piano and a right hand sound with an organ or some other solo type instrument. I would comp (play chords) in the left hand with the piano sound using chordless voicings knowing that the keyboard would smartly have the bass sound play the root of the chord even though I my self am not playing it. Then in the right hand I wood do a solo or what ever I want to do with the hand.





[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 10-17-2005).]

"to the genesys" has provided a well written explanation why.



doc-z: I think you may be confused. In auto-accompaniment mode, it's simply NOT POSSIBLE for your left hand to actually play bass lines "as the bass player" would.

The left hand's job (in auto accomp: full fingered split kb mode) is to trigger auto accomp chord recognition, and when emulating a jazz combo setting, with left voice on, and set to acoustic piano, provide the authentic sound of 'left-hand' jazz piano comping. In addition, your right hand, when set to the same LH 'acoustic piano' voice, can play stacked chord tone extension & alterations , providing a rich "2-hand" chord comping sound ala McCoy Tyner, while the arranger chord recognition remains triggered by what's played with your LH.

For instrumental soloing (sax, guitar, flute, etc), as "to the genesys' said, the right can freely play solos, while the left hand acts as the acoustic piano rhythm section player, providing the 'rootless comping chord' sound of an authentic jazz rhythm section piano player in a combo, yet able to trigger the auto accomp bass to play 'root based' bass lines. There is NO WAY to achieve this unless you play the rootless chords that I outlined above.


Yes, though this may work, it is extremely limiting. First of all, you would need to turn-OFF the LEFT voice. This would severely limit comping chords possibilities to whatever you can play with your 'right hand only'. Playing rootless chords in the left-hand allows you to fill the chord out with the right hand (stacked 4ths) to provide a much harmonically richer chord comping (ie: McCoy Tyner) sound: example:

F13: (LH: Eb1-A1-D2)(RH: G2-C3-F3)

In addition, your method, eliminates the possibility of playing the melody or instrumental soloing with your right hand.

Scott

Of course you could always get a Midi Pedal Board, and play the Bass Lines yourself, like a lot of Jazz keyboard players do.

Yes perhaps, but then I wouldn't need my arranger keyboard anymore either, so probably wouldn't be hanging out here on the SZ Arranger forum any longer either. I prefer delagating the bass line job to my arranger's auto accomp, and sticking to what I do best: playing live keyboard parts . . . with my fingers. - Scott

I didn't mean that you literally play bass lines. I meant you used your left to tell the bass player what to do. Usually the bass player uses roots.

Rootless left hand chords doesn't make sense to me in an arranger setting. Well yes if you are used to playing rootless chords with your left, and can't quickly adjust to using roots, well then I can understand it. But it must be confusing for the arranger too. Let's say you play a Dm9, but rootless (F - A - C - E) with your left, then how can the arranger know if it should play Dm9, or Fmaj7?

[This message has been edited by doc-z (edited 10-19-2005).]

Can we get back on point for a second because this is important for me:

Scott, what is the final outcome of the Jazz chord voicings on the Roland G70? Did Roland get it right; i.e. similar to the Tyros? I saw your post regarding full keyboard mode, but in Advanced AI mode, did Roland get it right?

Al