Morning gang,

Today I received the following email from my restaurant client here in Troy.

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Hi Bill.

At this point, I am unsure of continuing with our Jan and Feb dates. Although I think you've been great, I haven't seen the return that I hoped to see. Business has actually decreased on most of the nights you've played over the last few months. I don't really know why that is, although it may have something to do with the fact that we picked the wrong nights of the week, OR most of my clientele wasn't into it for one reason or another. Additionally, having weighed the cost of the whole thing.... your weekly fee along with dinner, radio spots, and newspaper advertising..... has made this attempt a pretty expensive endeavor considering the reality of what actually happened to business volume levels on your nights.

Not too sure where to go from here. At this point, I would rather not continue in Jan and Feb. Having said that, I also realize that I extended my virtual handshake to you when we booked those dates and I am a person of my word. I am open to continuing if you feel like you are locked into those dates. As I said, it's a losing deal for me right now and I am hesitant to again spend advertising dollars on something that has been a non return.

On a personal note, all of us here feel as if your perfomances have been high caliber and very good. The above comments in no way are a reflection on your personal performances, etc.

Mike
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Some random thoughts:

*His original goal was to try and increase general traffic in the dining room and bar.

*My original goal was to find a steady gig on an off night for me grow into something worthwhile.

*While it is probably the best place in town, this town is still Troy, OH, which isn't Cincy or Cbus...or even Dayton.

*There is no history of live entertainment here. They've had a few things here and there but nothing steady like me. They've been open 15+ years smack dab in downtown Troy, OH.

*I think that for this place, having live entertainment may not be a money making proposition in the short term. What I have seen is different people every week putting $30-$50 in my tip jar even though the staff says the place wasn't very busy those nights. I was there on Thursdays in the Fall, then switched to Sunday supper hours in December. A completely different crowd, IMO. In Jan/Feb, it was to return to Thursdays.

*I have already booked several future engagements from people who have heard me here...That seems to have a long term potential to continue, I think.

*That said, I think if he sucked it up and committed to 6 months or so of steady weekly gigs on a consistent night, he'd see some results...I'm not a habit yet in anyone's mind probably due to the Thursday/Sunday/Thursday switch...

*I don't think in this town people...in December...are looking for things to do. Everyone is getting ready for Xmas, running around, parties, ect...So, it may not be the best time to make a determination on the future results.

*I am already giving him a cut rate of $100.00, + food for 3 hours. (Well, its cut rate for me, I guess...)I'm not really interested in dropping my price any more. The short term financial loss for me really isn't a concern...I can easily replace it with a 1 hour gig that pays the same kind of money.

*I think that the people who have heard me, enjoy me quite a bit. I've no explanation on why he may be slower on the nights he has me come in at all. If my tip jar was empty, if no one stopped by to chat with nice words, then I'd think I wasn't the right guy for the job...My feedback from the people I see is very positive...

*Options include:

1) Forcing him to honor the booked dates, which I think is unwise and taints the relationship for any future possibilities.

2) Propose dropping all advertising expenditures and continuing through the scheduled 2008 dates and then re-evaluate in February.

3) Take the high road, make it as easy on him as possible to get out of our agreement to leave the relationship in a positive way.

All comments, suggestions are welcome...

Bill in Dayton www.billcorfield.com

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-18-2006).]

Bill, there's your answer. Take option #3, no bridges burned, no feelings hurt, no money lost, with the realization that many customers will miss you and you may be asked to return at some later point in time... at a higher fee. Good luck.

Glenn

#3 is the only way to go, since the money isn't a big thing for you. If you were in his shoes, that's probably what you would want to happen.
But I know you hate to "give up" on something that you feel will work out in the long run.
Good luck.
DonM

Absolutely #3. It's always better to keep the relationship friendly, especially with the volume of work you do in other venues. Restaurants don't seem to be the way to go anymore. You should have no trouble fiiing in that time.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Bill ...
I think there are several things to consider ...
1) I would think that in this location $100 + food, for a 3 hour gig is not a bad rate for a steady gig, especially if you are adding $30 - $50 in tips ...
2) This apparently has been a good exposure for you with future gigs being booked ...
3) Will the 'replacement' one hour gig provide the same exposure and potential?

You have laid the facts out very well ... How about a 'sit-down' with him and discuss some of the possibilities, i.e. reduction in advertizing, etc. Sometimes, local papers will advertize local entertainment (so and so appearing at xxxxx on Thursday night) with little or no charge ...
Or perhaps a limited time offer of using some (all?) of your tip $ to pay for some advertizing ...
I also think you need to establish what night of the week YOU will be there ...

In the end, I think it all comes down to what YOU see as the potential for yourself in the future at this place...
Good luck ....
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 12-18-2006).]

The appropriate thing to do would have been to never post this to the NET. The business between you and your client is exactly that, your business not anyone else's. Posting a personal e-mail from your client to you on the NET is not only rude, it shows a lack of respect on your part for him. Does your client know that you posted his personal e-mail on the NET? I'll bet if he did you wouldn't have to ponder what you need to do in this situation, he'd make the decision for you and never use your services again. His e-mail spelled things out quite clearly for you and he was being quite nice to you. In return what you did was simply wrong.

In my business I have many high profile clients... If I ever posted anything personal from them as you did it would kill my business. What you did shows a complete lack of tact on your part. I guess if that works for you great, but I believe good business is built on trust.

#3 for sure.
The restaurant owner expressed his situation very well...rather than just canning you on the spot. It is obvious that he was willing to try something new in the hope it work out to the benefit of both of you.

You may be right about needing more time to build the business...but when expectations are not met, owners tend to feel they are putting good money after bad.

Bill, you are a gentleman and pro. One gig isn't going to make or break you. There may be other opportunities there in the future and referrals from the owner.

#3, without a doubt.
Eddie

Geez, why don't you tell us how you really feel. I find that a bit dramatic. We're not talking highly confidential info or sharing secrects about a rocket launch here, it's a gig for Pete's sake. Your business is totally different as you say " high profile clients."

Bill for one I'm glad you posted that e-mail and question. If I were in your shoes, I would have posted just as you have. When I read your question I had no idea on how I would have handled it. It's certainly a judgement call and I would have been a bit undecided which way to go. But now that the facts are out and other's have commented. It seems that number 3 is the way to go, I would have taken that advice myself. Best wishes.



[This message has been edited by Pacesetter (edited 12-18-2006).]

3) Take the high road, make it as easy on him as possible to get out of our agreement to leave the relationship in a positive way.

Yes, again option 3. He has been very open and fair. Plus he will feel obligated to book you again if required.
Plus you will feel better in yourself dealing with it this way.

Hi Bill
Undoubtedly #3

This happened to me a number of years ago.
I got a gig as a result of just walking into a Pub, playing a few notes on a lonely piano, and being asked by the landlord to start a few nights for him.
I decided that a few extra quid would come in handy (I was just married) so I agreed.
After a couple of months, I realised that most of the time I was playing to a very small audience and I was incredibly bored with it.
I decided to stop the gig myself and the landlord agreed. Nobody was hurt, the Pub closed down some months later.There never was enough clietele to keep it alive.
cheers
Eddie Johnson

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Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

I think we've all been through something similar. I know I have. Sometimes it just doesn't work for everybody's mutual benefit, and it's better to remain friends and keep the door open for the future.
Having had experience as both the entertainer and the club owner, I am generally the first on to know if a situation is working out for the best.
DonM

Offer #3, but suggest #2..... Hell, if you are making 30 to 50 bucks a night in tips, and really want to see if you can build the gig some more, offer to drop your price to him 30 or 50 bucks a night until March - you'll still make what he initially offered.....

Short term concessions during the worst business time can often save a gig until things turn around. Just get a solid commitment to what level of business increase he expects to see (to check for reality!) before things get back to their current level, or even beyond! OTOH, if you can easily get a one hour gig for the same money as regular as this gig, why did you take it in the first place?

And to the posting of the email....... perhaps if you had just paraphrased the email and not included the owner's name you might have avoided criticism... the answers would still be the same, and potential employers, should they find out about this breach of confidentiality, would be more likely to hire you.....

I agree with Diki's reply all the way. and DonM, i've been on both ends too, so we both know that for the type of thing that Bill does, advertising is often money thrown out the window, unless you are already steadily advertising your place and can include the music at no or little extra cost in your regular ads. Table tent advertising and on-premises window posters and postcards are much more cost-effective ways to promote a guy like Bill. but nothing is more effective than word of mouth, and if the tips are that good there should be some of that happening. It's always very hard these days to make owners understand that things build on holding steady, so you become part of the furniture on certain nights that people know you will be there and don't have to jog their memory or check a calendar. In those situations, usually the more nights the better, even if they are not all winners, the whole is greater than the sum of parts. but owners today have gotten away from thart once-successful entertainment formula. My theory is that for one, they fear not offering more variety is boring, They don't realize a small venue can't offer variety without a huge ad /promo budget, and that variety changes the familiar character of their place.
they don't seem to understand how many patrons find it
familiar and comforting and sociable to come and hear one good performer at a favorite place on a regular basis.

So Bill, for whatever reason you prefer to stay rather than
take the 1-hr spot, i would suggest you offer a trial period
thru March as Diki suggests, staying on the same night, eliminating external ad expenses, and temporarily cutting your price to $75 with the understanding you will get $100 when there is an increase in business. If you have an adjacent night free, i would suggest to the owner to add that on for an extra $50 + tips/eats, on the sound theory that the more you are exposed there, the better your chances of building a regular crowd. The owner sounds like a reasonble person trying to do the right thing by you.


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Miami Mo

Bill I have to agree totally with this reply...I personally would never discuss business openly anywhere...its been my rule for 35+ years. I'd hate to see you learn the hard way. As a professional I'm sure you know what to do.

Happy Holiday.

Bill, my experience tells me that owners are a different breed than musicians. Your owner is at least willing to follow through on a gentleman's agreement. Your feeling that pulling out would not burn bridges holds true more for you than him. Will he invite you back in the future? He's not willing to spend $100 a week for entertainment; what's that tell you? Your option #3 is probably best in the long run.

First of all, thanks to everybody for their responses...

I spoke with the client this afternoon and basically offered option #3 but also shared with him the #2 option as well. He indicated to me that he loves what I do, but he just isn't getting the financial return he wanted to continue this. He has no idea what to make of the lower sales figures on some nights that I'm playing. He says he's spent roughly 3 grand promoting the restaurant and my music. He's open to trying the idea again down the road, maybe over the summer months when I'd perform outside on his patio.

To the comments on my posting the email in the first place.

I told the client directly that I had shared his email with a group of fellow musicians scattered across the country in the hopes of finding a solution that would benefit both parties. He apparently had no issues with it and like I said, hopes to have me back again.

I hear what you're saying...and I think its a judgement call. My reputation is sterling and I think, at least in my market, speaks for itself. The sheer volume of shows and repeat business I have every year tells me that more often than not, people enjoy doing business with me when possible.

If I had taken his email and run across the street to his competition, then yes, that wouldn't be cool. In my mind, sharing that email with a group of knowledgable and experienced people who may have been in the same situation I am in the past, might have produced some ideas that could've kept it going. No harm done...

Donny and perhaps others around SZ are known for being tight lipped about financial matters regarding their business. That's their right and I have no quarrel with it whatsoever. I, on the other hand, do not have a problem sharing info with people. I HATED the guessing games and shots in the dark I took when I started out. Some of the more established guys back then would give me zero feedback on pricing, for example. I didn't want to know their tax return info, just give me a ballpark what an average charge would be. I've spoke with several new acts, at the request of a few cients, and been forthright with them. My business hasn't suffered a bit. I am pleased that most of them are doing pretty well and we are friendly with each other. I often get calls to cover them when they can't take a gig, for example.

2 different approaches, both effective, I think.

Glad you got away with it, Bill, and the guy was OK with it. But not all are as open as he, and I think in the future, it would be best to be a bit more circumspect, just in case!

BTW, how's the food at this restaurant? If he is not already packed all the time, entertainment is not his only problem!

I have often thought that, if a restauranteur thinks that music is going to make an unsuccessful venue into a hot spot, they are not paying us NEARLY enough! His executive chef probably makes 10 times your salary, but here is the owner asking YOU to make the sacrifice! A top restaurant can make millions, but you NEVER hear of the pianist making more than the chef!

This is why it always pays to ask an employer what he expects you to do, money-wise, to the bottom line of his place. That way, if and when you exceed it, you can ask for more money, or run like hell when he expects you to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse for him for peanuts (enough mixed metaphors there?!)......

Bill,

Good post, good call, and you obviously made the right decission.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

I agree! REALLY helpful and an important issue.

How do ya make sure the price is not to high and not too low?

A few other thoughts:

As in marketing the rules of 7 and 9 applies and it would take a good 6 months to get a 'following' going.

Have you:
Gotten local press?
(consider making it a theme event for example a new thing for me is doing 'Motown Mondays' at a local bar)
Done flyers? (that is what have you done to promote the gig?)

and yes the reason we do gigs like this is not just the steady income but the 'referrals' are great. But I think we should all have the _minimum_ be a $100 a night. Sorry but I don't think club owners value what we do very much. But changing night also did not help and the dinner crowd and the drinkin crowd are as you well know 2 diff. animals.

Anyways just my .02
and thanks for sharing this... if we can't share stuff like this and just keep it here...

Happy holidays

Tom

Just to comment...I like your website Bill. It looks clean, uploads fast and the layout is nice to the eyes.

I was going to suggest offering a temporary discount for the Jan-Feb if you wanted more exposure since you said that you've gotten some gigs from the patrons there, but the other side of the coin for me was that we (musicians), can't always cut down our rates everytime a venue owner says he/she is not making money...I guess it depends on how long you've been there, how great the relationship is, and how accurate is the info (in your opinion, is it true that during your nights the business is slow). Looking at your performance schedule I can tell you're already busy as it is though

Anyway...I'm not even considered a professional (only plays for my church now), but thought I just give my .2

KN_Fan

Thanks KN for the compliments on the website. (You and anyone else, of course would be welcome to post such nice thoughts in the guestbook...)



Its kind of a game of cat and mouse with restaurant clients. I went by their place last night at 8-ish and they were "deader than a door nail"

At the end of the day, for me, in Troy...places like that will always seem to be a shaky proposition. Just not enough population to keep these places full...

Bill

Hi, Bill. There's a hard rule in marketing. The best marketing in the world can't make up for a deficient product over time. Same thing in music. Your addition to the product offering at this place is maby 20% of the mix (if you consider price, promotion, place, people and all the variences of these).

Generally music at a restaurant is one of the refinements, and cannot be expected to fill the place by itself.

Sounds like you took the high road. I find that most restaurant owners don't know how to choose and promote music very well.

Way to go!


Russ

How do ya make sure the price is not to high and not too low?

A few other thoughts:

As in marketing the rules of 7 and 9 applies and it would take a good 6 months to get a 'following' going. Doesn't it?

Have you:
Gotten local press?
(consider making it a theme event for example a new thing for me is doing 'Motown Mondays' at a local bar)
Done flyers? (that is what have you done to promote the gig?)

and yes the reason we do gigs like this is not just the steady income but the 'referrals' are great. But I think we should all have the _minimum_ be a $100 a night. Sorry but I don't think club owners value what we do very much. But changing night also did not help and the dinner crowd and the drinkin crowd are as you well know 2 diff. animals.

Russ, you are absolutely right. Not only do they rarely promote their musical entertainment, but additionally, they don't seem to promote their restaurants very well either. This likely accounts for the fact that restaurants have the highest failure rate of all U.S. businesses.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Can you tell me what are the rules of 7 and 9?