After reading some of the posts and replies, I have come to the conclusion that if one doesn't agree with the majority or some of the veterans here, they’re in for nasty responses and their qualification gets questioned. Since when do you have to be qualified to base an opinion? I have experienced it first hand just because I gave my honest opinion. Isn't this forum here for everyone to give opinions and help each other on our musical journeys. I'm new as the Synth_Guy, but have participated and checked in on this forum for many years. Please, lets stick to what this forum is all about and that is giving our opinion and letting others know what our opinion is about a certain device, arranger, pro audio etc.. teaching others what they seek to learn. Lets not scare away newcomers or people that have different or modern ideas or opinions. As I stated on another tread after getting bashed for stating what I know as a musician, All of us give our opinion based on experiences in the music world we live in. Some play different types of music, others play for different types of crowds. We are all out there doing something we love and the rewards are greater than we sometimes acknowledge. To be able to please people, put a smile on their face, be the center of attention, feeling proud of yourself and make money at the same time. Does it get any better? Lets stop trying to make this a competition of who's who and so on and get back to what this forum is really about and that is helping each other.

I agree with you S-G.
I think some people on this forum should be a bit less thin-skinned. Some of the old timers here have patented the truth, and frankly that's why I stay away lot of the times. I know that if I speak my opinion and you offend (not in a personal term) some of the gurus you're in for some slamming. As far as the logitech thread, you got your ass chewed totally uncalled for, because you will not find anybody that requires true quality sound with power, to satisfy a descent size crowd, using PC speakers. But for nursing homes and cocktail parties they are probably ok. So is an acoustic piano, unamped.
But to stick with your topic, I hope the members here will not jump on everybody that differs ever so little from the mainstream, because things tend to turn very colorless/colourless then.

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Roy-Andrè

SynthGuy, coming from a long standing member here (joined Dec 1999 ), I for ONE do value your arranger keyboard & music related opinions, whether I agree with them or not.

Though I'll agree that there's somewhat of a 'good ol boy' mentality among some here, overall, the attitude among the membership has been (for the most part) cordial.

WAY BACK in 1999, when I started out posting here, I too was met with some rather nasty & condescending responses from a few of the even older vetran members here, but over time (and perhaps tenacity on my part) they grew to respect (or at least tolerate ) my opinions & posting style. SynthGuy, just continue sharing your ideas & opinions here in a FRIENDLY RESPECTFUL manner and I'm confidient you'll quickly gain respect among a select following here (including myself ). Welcome to the Synthzone Poster's club.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 01-04-2005).]

Snyth_Guy....by way of your post, I know that you mean well, however, let me say that there is not a disscusion board anywhere in the world where the bickering does not exist
at least some of the time, it's only human nature...I am the admin for my own board for tourist in Cozumel Mexico and at times I've had to ban members from posting because of problems....don't dispair, just enjoy the board as best you can....if you want to check out my board, you can do so just click http://www.cozumel-hotels.net/yabbse/

Yeah, your right. They have thier own little group that's been posting for years and if you don't fit into it they tend to stop responding to you... The majority that post all have a common frame of mind and those who don't follow thier road get lost in the ditch...I'm happy enough lurking, sometimes they have some usfull info... And sometimes I venture a post, however, I learned not to post a thread but to respond...
DJ

Here's my two cents for what its worth...

I joined back in the Spring last year, right about the time I bought my first arranger. (A Tyros) I had several questions about them and even though I was a newcomer, I was impressed by the number of responses I recieved. It was in fact, the deciding factor which led me to purchase a Tyros.

I purchased the keyboard, speakers system, hard drive and case from another synthzone member all the way across the country. I got a better deal than I could get from a store closer to home. Trust me, I was a "lost ball in the tall weeds" when I started to learn the board, but quickly, from the help of others, I got up to speed nicely.

This board is a resource, pure and simple. The advice, suggestions, and flat out help would'nt have happened if I hadn't signed up and introduced myself. I've had one instance of a "real" problem with the Tyros and once I yelled, more help came running than I knew what to do with.

I've exchanged several emails with about 6 different members and found that method also to be a good resource for ideas, suggestions and support.

Do I like everyone's music that I hear on here? No, not at all...BUT, I certainly respect the skill with which it was produced. It works both ways-I'm sure there are some board members who thinks my stuff is pretty good...others who think its not so good. Its really not the point.

I've posted questions on the site that didn't get a response every once in awhile. Sometimes, the vets know that issue has been handled before and I 've learned to try & do a search before I post a question. If I don't get any responses, I don't take it personally. Maybe its a busy day for the regulars...maybe it was just a dumb question on my part, lol...

I've seen polite, respectful disagreement among all the so-called "vets" happen on a regular basis.

What WILL get someone's ass chewed, is if someone is rude, makes wild allegations or is overly harsh to someone who may not be as talented as some, but who have still put forth an effort to create some music.

Only a small percentage of us do this full time. On the other hand, some of the best stuff I've heard comes from a gentleman who is a doctor by trade, (Dreamer?) and does mind-blowing latin numbers. A certain openess comes in handy around here...Contributions can be songs, answers to questions or just friendly support.

This is NOT rocket-science, gang...be nice to people and it all comes together pretty good.

If you've had a bad experience, maybe consider a different tone or choice of words next time and see if you don't get a more positive response.

Bill in Dayton



[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 01-04-2005).]

Boy do I agree with the thin-skin comment. People get so offended and take everything personally.

I made a brief comment the other day on a post about Jazz music being noise and did I ever take it on the chin. I'll never do that again.

I've said before that Uncle Dave can't carry a tune in a bucket and he never made one negative comment to me about it. He just takes it in stride. Maybe that's because he really can sing eh?

Scott, you speak as in past tence...there are still some of us that are still nasty to you...


BTW, How do we get in or out for that matter...of the "good old boy" group?
Do you have to be as old as Gary?
As arrogant as UD?
As speak your mind as DNJ?
As country as DonM?

Lighten up everyone, there is nothing wrong with anyone at SZ...and you can get all the help you need...sometimes without asking...even you Yammy guys..

The list of guys mentioned, are a great group to get together with and have a great time with....Now if DonM would only move closer to the Northeast..he would fit in perfect..especially when we EAT..

We don't always agree with each other, but we respect each other and know we have honesty and integrity...even though UD makes a lot of mistakes,DNJ will keep him in line..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 01-04-2005).]

Fran, perhaps I've just developed a thick skin & quick reflexes to repeal those mosiquito bites. . . whack!



I don't need help. I just look in the Yamaha User's Manual - Scott

Darn..I've read this entire thread - and so far..no bickering...what a disappointment
zuki

Scott, now that's what I'm talking about...have fun and don't be so serious...

From reading post over the pass year, especially those that are not in keeping with the majority, the above comments in my humble opinion to some extent are valid and true. I suppose it is O K as long as the majority does not prevent persons from posting differing and sometimes beneficial opinions.

This thread is stupid! What a dumb post! Your all idiots, nobody has a problem! You do!... hehe... fooled ya.

Im thinking that my speaker thread sparkedthis post. My appologies, I didnt mean for any whining about what some people like and others dont. Some people like some things, others like others.

You have an opinion, your entitled to it. Just dont go overboard with that right.

Just rember the song... Why cant we be friends!? why cant we be friends!? ect... haha

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 01-04-2005).]

Perhaps another chorus of Kumba-Ya?! - Scott

Huh?! Fran, You've got to be kidding, right? My Mom continues to REMIND me to 'grow up' and start acting MORE serious and mature. Perhaps it was all that fried chow mein & won ton that caused this - Scott

I've been a member here for several years now, and I too have had a run with others, but one thing I've always noticed is that (word choice), can make or break a post. Some people may have good intentions when posting, but may not realize that their word choice will cause static with other members.

This is without a doubt the best arranger forum on the Web. No one is better than the other here. We are all at differnt skill levels. Some professional and some just begining. It's all about making music and sharing our ideas and offering help to eachother. We all have our days too. Plus attacking someone is not the way to go either. We all have different views on the issues, and need to show respect to eachother for that.

Squeak

Squeak, though I agree with you, I have to admit there appears to be a 'pecking order' here in regards to those who can (and can't) get away with making attacks. No different than High School . . . Seniors RULE! - Scott

Yeah there's a pecking order alright Curious, what makes you a senior here on the forum (outside of age of course).........?

actually let me rephrase that.... What makes a (member) a senior here on the forum (outside of age of course)? Don't want anyone to feel I'm knocking on any ages here.

I think I'm going to type a disclaimer and use it as my signature so if anyone is ever offended by what I say they can scroll down and read the small print

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-04-2005).]

"I'd like to teach the world to sing ... in perfect harmony ....." C'mon ... sing along!
La la la la la la la la ......
I LOVE this place!

Your into the egg nog again...aren't you Dave??

Good nite everyone..

It's not what you say, or how long you've been here, but HOW you say it that can cause problems. I like everybody. Except Scott of course.
BTW isn't it hard to see a tongue in the cheek over the internet?
DonM

Yeah dont post stuff like...

-------------------------------------------

SYNTH_GUY


Its clear what your dealing with here and why. Just check out most anyone's profile, their sites, and what they do. For the most part your dealing with some sideshow background low volume arranged cover "artists." That will probably be offended at such a simple observation. I mean heck one of the members here ( that admits they know nothing of sound ) made some half ass PC speaker Vs PRO speaker contrast thread, where he was amazed the crap he used sounded so great and had others like him agree.

If your playing live shows in a full band and writing, your already worlds beyond any of the general public grade advice around here...all in all this place should only serve as a comedy zone with a legion of clowns pleasuring each other for your amusement.

So screw insulting them or not in part, as they have no issue with insulting anyone with their closed minded trite. I mean we have people here that act like they found some keys to the kingdom, then have problems admitting that honest limitations even exist. Where else would you get "these speakers will not work with what your doing, but you should try these magic speakers that will not work with what your doing before you dismiss them."

--------------------------------------------

Cause someone that respects your point of view, could take it the wrong way.

Yeah, I wish I had a "tongue in cheek" smilie for people to use We have to remember that text online is not the same as a verbal conversation and sometimes postings can be read in a way that the poster never really intended. Also postings will still be readable 10 years from now and found in search engines like Google unlike spoken words that fade quickly and are only ever heard once. Just keep that in mind when posting.

And the only grouchy old senior member here you don't want to p*** off is me .... just kidding .... it really takes a lot to make me mad I actually enjoy the mix of personalities on the forums. If we were all the same it would be pretty boring.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-05-2005).]

Maybe, and I emphasize maybe, the best English speaking based arranger forum. But I know for a fact that arrangers are very popular in Germany, France and Italy, and a lot of the players there post in their own language on those foras. A little humbleness towards members from these countries and others are in place, I think.

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Roy-Andrè

I am quite open to creating specific foreign language forums here at Synth Zone if I was asked to. The main problem for me is moderating forums that I can't read. I'd really need someone fluent in the particular language to monitor in case of problems.

Don't get me wrong Nigel, I think you are running a great forum and my advise is 'don't mess with success'!

My only point is that such bold statements triggers my sense of justice to other fora.


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Roy-Andrè

Anyway, what are you doing up at this time of night!!!
At least I'm from Norway and we have living daylight here now!

He-he.

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Roy-Andrè

So, where did the above come from? A search does not show this text.

Rather than post a respose, I'd first like to know where the above came from.

WOW .... people up all hours of the night with lots of time on their hands ... too much caffeine maybe?!? ...
... and I believe this all started when someone gave an opinion without even hearing the equipment ... I can understand that someone could look at a PA system and really think that it will not do the job for their particular venue ... but then a BOSE surround sound system doesn't look like much but it can blow you away ...
I think the criticism started when a poster said something to the effect of "... I haven't heard them, but I know they're no good..." How valid an opinion (even if it's only the writer's) can that be ... Opinions should be based on some kind of fact or experience ...
And when someone starts making personal attacks by demeaning "cover artists" who bring joy to hundreds of people a week, one should expect some "ruffled feathers" ...
Peace on Earth and Good Will to Men ...
Keep makin' beautiful music...
t.

It's all in the wording.
I get slammed as much as anyone for being sharp tongued, but my comments and responses are always intended to help, educate or entertain.

If we all post with some compassion and tact, (and speak from EXPERIENCE), we'll continue to get a lot done in this great information haven !

Nigel - you're my hero!

I just want to say that I didn't intend to get everyone all worked up when posting this tread. I am suprised to see that the culprits that seem to be closed minded even here continue to show their ignorance. Lets be happy that we have a forum where we can either give or recieve advice, even when it is good or bad. Just keep in mind that an opinion is based on personal experience. We all have diferent experiences during our music career, some are at diferent levels of professionalism regardless of how many years in the business, but we all something that can be shared regardless. For those that continue to shed there closed mind opinions, try to understand that we are all diferent types of people and musicians. If you play for 20-100 people versus someone that performs for 200-5000, then your opinion and experiences will be very different.

Synth Guy, I must be missing something..Who are the "culprits"? I didn't read any comments of ignorance in this post.
The only people that posted here on this topic are Scott, Bill, Squeak ,Boo, Dave, DonM and me[maybe a few more]. Are the culprits on this list?

Please email me and enlighten me.. Let me know what's going on..

Well you are still giving S-G a hard time.
When it comes to sound it's all about physics, decibels, cones, spread, etc. A lot of this can be learnt by visiting the live adio board http://www.prosoundweb.com/ and go to forums, or by picking up a book at the library.
This means you don't always have to hear the gear to realize it will not be good enough for certain jobs.
I think you guys should back off the slamming of S-G. I support his statements fully.

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Roy-Andrè

Culprits refer to the individuals that continue to take jabs even though the purpose of this tread was to make members aware that not all of us agree with each others opinions or expertise. Still if you read thru the replies you'll see that the bashing continues. Again I say that this post was not directed to anyone in general but to the general public. After recieving some very surprising and negative emails, I'm reminded why I stopped participating here the last time. I think I'll just do what I've been doing in the past since I stopped posting and check in ounce in a while to read some of the treads. It's been a real!

I told myself I would stop responding to these things, BUT. . . I don't see anybody bashing you on the forum. I once took exception with your firm stand on the Logitech speakers, because you hadn't used them and because you are obviously performing in far larger venues than a lot of the players here.
I also expressed a desire to hear some of the music you do. But's it's no big deal really.
I am in total agreement that we should all respect each other's points of view and "speak" with respect even when we disagree.
I think you have valuable knowledge that we can learn from and don't want to see you leave.
DonM

Synth-Guy,
Don't you go anywhere, several here agree with you, me for one.

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Roy-Andrè

I use to be a participating member under another name and because of the same reasons I stopped posting even though I had made some good friends. The last year I just checked in from time to time to read some of the posts. I prefer to remain a reader. It's displeasing to me to try to give professional advice and get negative remarks. In reference to some remarks that were made questioning my talents and experiences; I am a PRO and wether some believe it or not I could care less. For personal reasons I prefer to remain anonymous. I have played with a famous band in the mid 90's and have done studio work for many artists here in NY. I sure many of you have heard my work. I participated here in the past and joined again now because I happen to like sharing my experiences and technics as well as advise with those that seek it, as many know and have recieved direct emails from me. Since most use PC speakers for gigs or home use. I leave you with some advice on the a new Post. It is my opinion that these are the best PC speakers money can buy. I own them and I have used my Klipsch 4.1 THX speakers for practicing in the past, but now they serve as my sorround sound system in my pool room. Good luck to all and keep the forum going, you never know if the next mozart is amongst getting his feet wet.

Well, I don't know who you were previously, or why you had to change your registration id, but in looking back over your posts, I've come to the conclusion that your words and tone seem to be very confrontational, destructive, and very personal.

Most people here are positive, creative, and just play fun people. How anyone can not get along with these kind folks is beyond me. I don't agree with them all the time and they me, but we NEVER EVER make it personal.

However, you do seem intent on making it personal. Why don't you chill out, relax, and just take people the way they are and for what they are. It's much healthier.

Nigel is dead on about one of the main differences between written and spoken messages.

A way to make a point about the differences between between verbal and electronic messages is part of an excercise from Interpersonal Communications.

" I Didn't Tell John You Were Stupid".

If you place the major emphasis on each word, one at a time as you read the sentence, you create a completely different message at each pass.

The emphasis on "I" implies someone else did...

The emphasis on "Tell" means I implied..


And so on...

There is also such an immediate quality in electronic communications that a lot of people (including me) don't spend a lot of time creating the message.

We all mean well...we just need to consider the impact and clarity of our messages.


Russ

you don't have to say who you are.but if you don't mind,I got 3 questions if you can answer.

1.your age
2.type of music with that famous band of 90's( are you the co-founder/original line up)or session player
3.are you african-american.

then,I will know you,I guess.

It would mean so much more if we actually knew who we were dealing with. The advice would have more creditability ..... or not.
We can all teach as well as learn .... but the personal interaction is what keeps us grounded. Don't isolate yourself...this is a friendly place. You'll get just what you put into it!