Hello brothers.
I think that I have a question for PC experts.

My PC:
Mother board: Genuine Intel D865 GLC system board
Processor:Pentium4 3,00GHz,Socket 478,Bus speed 800MHz.
Physical memory:1024RAM, DDR400.
OS:Windows XP version 5.1 service pack2 build 2600.
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Pro.
OK, I have installed my music softwares:
Sound Forge8, Adobe Audition 1.5, CakeWalk Pro Audio 9 and Encore notator.
I can open and work with any software WITHOUT problems with temperature but when Encore (notator) is openned, the temperature monitor of processor and mother board shows the temperature increasing very fast until to reach the "red zone".
So, I close the software and the temperature turns to normal zone.
Note:I have a Intelbox fan for processor, 2 ducted fans for mother board, 1 fan for HD and I fan for gabinet.
Help pls...
Chico

I guess there are minimum two possible sources of failers...

1. heated air problem
a. The air inside the PC case can't circulate in a good way. Make sure that all the flat cables inside the case are out of the air stream so that the air can circulate and the fan can provide the CPU an optimal air condition.
b. The surrounding heat of the PC is too high (I had some PCs crashed by heat in last summer). A fan doesn't really make its job if the air that it brings to the CPU is hot or even hotter like the air that it blows away from the CPU. In this case you need a cooler place - maybe the cellar or a climate control unit in your office. This year I'll use them with open cases...

2. the CPU is too much overclocked
a. If your CPU clock is too high then it isn't a matter as long as you're doing not too much on your PC. But right in that moment when you're starting an application which needs much CPU power then you'll have a heat problem after a (short) while. In this case you can try to slow down your CPU speed in your BIOS.
b. It's possible that your CPU is a so called monday product. Another CPU for testing your application would clear this point of speculation. In this case you can also try to solve your heat problem by slowing down your CPU speed in your BIOS.

Some may think that this problem would be caused by the program itself but a modern program only uses the software interfaces that the operating system provides them. So, this heat problem could be caused by every program that uses the same interfaces/routines.

I hope I could help you a little bit...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 06-01-2005).]

Hi Sheriff.

You wrote:
So, this heat problem could be caused by every program that uses the same interfaces/routines.

Cakewalk 9 and Encore use the same interface /routines.

I can run Cakewalk with normal level of temperature . The problem occurs just with Encore.

Cheers from Brazil
Chico

Be sure your cooling fans are working properly.
DonM

Hi Chico.

Your story is a bit strange. One would of course expect that high CPU usage could lead to high temperatures, but that specific dependance of the Encore application is really strange. Do you have a way of measuring (comparing) % of CPU usage with Encore opened and closed? Is there a big difference? Try to make sure that Encore doesn't trigger some kind of loop that eats a lot of processing power, when it's opened.

One sure way of solving your problem is changing your cooling system. Coolers with water are very good and silent.

Is your cooler a little noisy? If this is the case, it's a sign that it is not working well, but you can easily solve this problem. I had troubles with the AMD processor in my server/desktop PC a while ago. AMD processors are very sensitive to temperature and it would shut down from time to time, because of the excessive temperature. The reason was that the cooler was getting more and more dust and not turning with enough speed to cool the processor. Solution: take off the little label in the center of the cooler wheel and insert a little bit of fat (oil or preferably the kind of fat substance that is used to lubricate the rolling spheres of a car wheel - in portuguese: "massa consistente"). This worked perfectly for me.

Good luck, Chico.

-- José.

Hey Chico,

Interesting problem. I wonder if the program could be causing a loop...causing the CPU to grind away at a set of instructions it can't complete...And it just keeps workin' harder at it.

I checked the GVOX website for this problem...nothing. Under the download section there are patches for the various versions. You might want to make sure the program is up-to-date.

Are you familiar with Task Manager (press Ctrl-Shift-Esc together)(use your left hand...thumb on Ctrl, 2nd finger on Shift, 3rd finger on Esc)? This utility tool shows all processes running and allows you to view things like Page Faults, CPU Time, Peak Mem Usage, etc (if you have the columns checked for viewing). You can also set the priority of a process here (right-click on a process running and lower the priority). I doubt if that's it but just a thought. It would be interesting to see if one of the columns I mentioned above shows the number increasing exponentially when the program is running. The programmers would want to hear about that.

-mike

José and Mike

You are in the right way.

% of CPU usage:

Encore 50/54%
Cakewalk 1/4%

?????

Chico

Well, it's strange how Encore eats that amout of CPU.. I can't see what heavy calculations are behind a music editor... However 54% of CPU shouldn't be much a problem for a system working normally.

My only two ideas are: try to uninstall and re-install Encore, in order to kill a possible undesirable software loop. And... open the PC box and carefully check, clean and oil your coolers.

-- José.

A lot of those CPU monitors are not accurate. Best bet is to restart and enter your BIOS (hit delete when starting up, often when your motherboard logo comes up) and monitor that temp. Set your computer up so it will warn you at a certain temp, and shut down at any temp higher than safe. About 70 celcius is getting too hot. A few ways to effectively decrease CPU temp is to...

1. Remove the heatsink, wipe off dust, add more thermal compund (be very liberal)
2. Check CPU fans speed to see if it is performaning less than it should, a few hundred less rpm really drops it.
3. Add more fans, more the marrier, i curently have 12 (yes 12 haha) in my computer, 2.6ghz running at 3.1ghz and it is around 25-30 celcius. Fans are cheap!
4. Buy a new more efficient CPU fan, a good one will run 40 some bucks.

The logic between the temps on different programs is believable. If a prgram requires more work from the CPU it will get hotter. Let you comp set at idle and notice the temp, then run a demanding program and the temp will shoot up.

Phil

[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 06-01-2005).]

Chico,

Is your mouse USB connected ? If so, if you have an adapter lying around, connect it to the PS2 mouse bus and check CPU % again.

John

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Have a nice day

I will agree with some guys here, is is a little unnatural for a program to drive the CPU crazy like that and overheat it, especially if it doesnt strain the CPU with complex istructions (like 3d calculations) which I suppose encore does not have.

You said about monitoring temperature. Is these measurements provided by a little program supplied by the motherboard manufacturer and usually residing in the system tray? (usually lower right corner, along with the system clock etc).

Phil is right, sometimes these programs do not behave well. So there is a fair chance this program does not behave well.

BUT, On the other hand:

1) DO NOT oil anything, and certainly NOT with oil. The fat substance that Jose describes is silicone based lubricant, but better to change a suspect fan than to oil it and have it fail later, and take the cpu to the grave with it.

2) Do NOT ADD thermal compound "grease". The LESS you have, the better. This stuff is there so it fills up tiny scratches or not perfectly milled surfaces so the contact between 2 surfaces (CPU and heatsink) is more even. If you add more, it will actually have the reverse effect and act as an insulator, PREVENTING heat from transferring from the CPU to the heatsink. If anything I would recommend chacking if you have more than needed and scrape away some!!!

Best thing is to buy compressed air, and spray it inside the PC trying to wipe off some of the dust. Don't overdo it. A little dust is no problem at all. To be honest, this will only make you feel better, not the PC, IMHO.

If you don't know what you are doing, better have someone do it for you, because even removing and reinstalling the heatsink may break the CPU, depending on the model.

That said, It seems like a software problem to me. If the temp goes to the "red zone" and does not return to normal quickly, you can push it to the red, and quickly restart and enter the BIOS and check tha BIOS temp. If it is normal (40-50) you are ok. If it is still high, reistall encore and see if it solves it. Maybe encore is not behaving very well and causes problems with that particular program. Along with patching encore, try to find an updated version of the motherboard monitor utility.

I hope it helps a little.

PS, as for fans, the less you have (with no heating problems of course) the better....you are a musician, you want to avoid noise, right?

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 06-02-2005).]

Well, I have my doubts in this point because you said that Encore is a notator software. I know that Cakewalk is a studio software so, for me it seems to be locical that they are NOT using the same interfaces/routines. I didn't mean anything like USB, midi or other hardware interfaces - I was talking about software interfaces.

Those interfaces are also known as drivers (for example .dll files in Windows), modules or subroutines. They are coming with the OS or in many cases with the software developers of the many programs on market. These drivers provide the ability that a program can communicate with the hardware. And the CPU is a part of the hardware.

There will be another possibility: You could have a virus on your system which is linked to this program. I don't know if anyone remembers the link viruses in earlier days.

Like others said here it's really unusual for a notator program to use so much CPU power. Informing the developers is a really good idea because those reflections will give them the chance to solve the problem IF IT WAS created by them.

...et cetero censeo, microsoftem esse delendam...

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 06-02-2005).]

Hey Chico,

And you're sure it's the encore.exe process that's eating up the CPU and not something else (like your virus program goin' bonkers whenever you start Encore)?

You start Encore, start Task Manager (it'll come to the foreground, it always does), click on the Processes tab at the top, you should see some columns with boxes at the top. Click on the CPU box that tells the display to sort by the process using the most CPUs and what percentage it's using.

Do you see Encore.exe at the top of the list (or something else)?

I just downloaded a demo version of 4.5 here at work on a W2K Pro workstation. It's fine, no CPU hogging. You can try to patch your current version, do a uninstall / reinstall, or try to contact Encore's tech support department (maybe all of the above).

You gotta a weird one here!

-mike

Hi Chico.

Strangely, with Encore open (with the anti-virus program disabled), my CPU usage goes to 100% and the temperature have a increase of 15ºC, very close to the acceptable value of CPU temperature.
This problem only happens with Encore!!!
I´m still investigating what is the problem with this specific program.

Abraços.
Armando

Hmm, that reminds me on earlier years...
The old PC systems of the 80's with Intel's 80286 CPU had a similar problem. There were viruses that caused a calculation cycle inside the CPU. So, the CPU overheated and died. I've thought that modern Intel CPUs can't do so anymore but that might could be an error...

Oh, by the way, I've never heard about a Motorola CPU which died in the same way...

Maybe one of the communication pathes between operating system and notator program isn't working. Such things can cause a flood of requestion commands.
But that's true speculation. Better write to the developers!
If this problem didn't appear in any FAQs then it's definively a new one. Also, you can downgrade to an older version of Encore with which you are sure.

At this moment I have no more ideas. Good luck, Chico!
Danny

Hi Brothers

Some news about the problem.

The high temperature and great amount of CPU usage just occurs with Encore running.
My old PC (Pentium3/800MHz) has the same problem, never detected because the machine do not have system alert for overheat.
I made some experiences with this results :
CPU temperature running Encore: 67°C
CPU usage:70%.
So, the problem is Encore software.
I tryed unistall and install once more the software without success.
Tomorrow I will have a different edition of Encore with other serial number and I will try.

Cheers
Chico

Good luck Chico

Hi,

(Re)Installing softwares doesn't change anything.

Load the charge CPU like this :

Use a software (cakewalk) where you can put a lot of audio tracks with a lot of fx. (use huge fx like reverbs).

In the main time, if you have an Internet connexion, do some download file, about 3 or 4.

Does the same thing occure ?

Hello Brothers.

The problem is solved.
I installed another version of Encore software that is perfect.
Now, running Encore , CPU usage is 2% and temperature below 100°F.
I want to thank each member that was involved with my problem.
This is SZone
Cheers
Chico

Thats very interesting that re-installing the program would change the temp so drastically. Well im glad your problem is solved, and it didnt cost ya nuttin!

Phil

Phil.
I installed another version of software.
My old version of Encore was the problem.

Cheers
Chico

Hi Chico

Have you recently installed Windows XP?

Another member of SZ and I are having a problem installing one version of Encore and another version goes throught the install version and then won't come up.

I understand that a lot of older programs are not very compatible with XP. I thought that when Windows upgrades that all the previous stuff would work alright.

Anybody have a fix on this?

Anybody have a version of Encore that works of XP Pro Corp version that they could send?

Thanx

Scott

Suuuper!!!