It always bothers me when I see someones playing Arranger keyboard on stage, restaurant or where ever and their head is buried in the music NEVER looking up or away from the sheet to make eye contact with the audience, smile or what ever......then when the song is over their flipping pages while people are waiting to dance on the floor or for the next song without even so much as to even acknowledge that the audience is even there leaving any banter as non existent! Playing arranger KB should be done effortlessly with a liquid flow. I frequently hear people tell me they saw someone playing somewhere and how boring it was to watch them perform because of many of the things I mentioned above..Although I can read...I personally choose not to use sheet music or lyrics, as a singer/ KB artist I want to react off the audience thruout the gig....after almost 40yrs I'd better know these tunes back & forth... Is reading YOUR "CRUTCH" ?
Are you too LAZY to memorize all your songs & lyrics? If I took away your sheets would your be totally lost? I'd like to tear into this topic to discuss this.....

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________________________

Donny

� Choose a Job You Love, and you will Never have to Work a Day in Your Life! �
________________________
And HUG Someone tight Everyday....
You'll Feel better afterwards



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-29-2007).]

It�s all down to the venue, type of music and type of instrument, if you look at organists most of them play with their back to the audience.
In the final analysis, so long as you engage with your audience between songs there isn�t normally a problem. (Again this will depend on venue)
Unfortunately this is one question where there is more then 1 answer.

Bill

Bill.... I'm hoping to hear more answers very soon....lets wait & see.

It always bothers me when I see someone is playing Arranger keyboard on stage. Good point Donny.

I played for many years without a music stand, everything by memory. Here is the big mistake; because of time I used music on a few new tunes, after that it became a crutch followed by a need.

I work now with a music stand present on all jobs but it is more of a crutch, my attention is still out front relating. Right now I am more uncomfortable singing to a midi file without doing much with the keyboard. I know it�s in my mind �maybe.

I have had music in front of me while I�m playing the song from beginning to end only to find the music on the stand was not what I was singing. I am now playing 90% of my songs reading lyrics and chords, no note notation. One step closer to not having a music stand in front of me. I do have the music stand (My laptop) off on my right about 45 degrees, it�s not directly n front of me.

My thought, if you not using music keep it that way don�t change. If you are reading music and have a long list of songs the change would be a big task.

After all that, the big question is; �Are you doing the job�? �Do they call you back�?

John C.

Well right now I'm learning or relearning over 30 songs on rather short notice. Like about 2 days before the first gig.

After I get used to them I'm sure that will disappear a little at a time. I mean, I do have other things to do.haha

I do a lot of work with pick up bands. What else would a person do but use the fake books or whatever. It's done a lot around here and I don't think the public minds one bit.

I bring the books otherwise but find myself hardly using them.

On another note, being a band player from 7 pieces to big bands, I think reading music is natural and normal. I also think to the public it must appear that I really am "playing that thing."

A little different for a singer I guess, but I'd rather hear excellent singing using music than not so good singing without.

I see pros doing new stuff with music on stage or on TV playing new stuff. Like Maynard Fersuson did, or Doc Severinsen, etc, etc.

Donny, it probably bothers me more than you that I have to use lead sheets. (I'm not trying to be a wise guy either with that comment). My training was geared more toward reading rather than from memory so I've always used sheets. That's one of the reasons I love the music pad pro. No fumbling paper, low profile. I try to keep as much eye contact with my audience while reading. I guess it's what newscasters use. i.e. a telepromter but looking at the audience.

It's not because I'm lazy I can tell you that. 25 years in sales I had to be a self starter. Now in my full time work, my day begins with a 5:15 wake up call and about a 10 hour average work day. Then dinner some evening time with my family. At 9 PM the fun starts, that's usually the time I get to the keyboard and play, learn new material. Most nights it's about 12 midnight when I head to bed that is unless like in the last few weeks I'm even up a bit later learning the ins and outs of the G70.

I guess it's how you set your priorities. I know I should probably devote at least half hour a night trying to memorize material. I don't. I'm not making excuses, but after the day I put in I just need fun time to play the piano and or arranger keyboard. I have a lot of respect for those that memorize music, because I know it's not a piece of cake to do. ( maybe for some it is and more power to you if you can) Just my 2 cents. Good topic for sure.

[

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 07-29-2007).]

No books, no sheets, no computers, no midi files, mp3 or other stuff - only live arranger play with pure audience participation. After performing over 60x a month, shame on me for not memorizing my material.

I played my first bar (3 hours) tonight in 10 years this way and it went great. I have yet to find a song that I cannot play with styles

zuki

My laptop is primarily a virtual instrument rather than a music database, so it sits sort of off to the side when I play.

I can remember the music to just about anything after I've played it a few times. Lyrics seem to take me somewhat longer. For the occasions when I sing something that I might stumble on, I have tons of lyric text files, and I simply use them when the need arises and read the lyrics off of the T2's screen. I usually don't have to look at it very much, so I can keep eye contact with my audience most of the time.

Even when I've played in band setups, whenever space permits, I like being out in front ( or as close as possible ) with the lead singer and guitars. I like to be able to see as much of the audience as I can. So many of the more popular bands I've seen have the keys and player off to the side, where the field of view makes it difficult to see some of the audience. Never liked that for myself.


AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 07-29-2007).]

Zuki so when can we hear a few demos....with all those gigs per month you must be well rehearsed .....common dont be shy! Memorization is the away to go for me lets me do what I want and also improvise at a split second as I cultivate the audience and my show thruout the gig....juggling all my performance tools!

It can become a crutch and then it becomes more trouble than it's worth, or "I'm too busy to memorize", to change.

For those who are 'readers', I'm sure most do not realize how much better they could perform without reading, because then they could put so much more heart into their performance. And quite honestly, have a heck of a lot more fun doing it.

Glenn

One thing that works well for me is to create playlists of 13 song sets and run through them repeatedly so that I can memorize them. Once I learn that set, I move on to the next. This way I have my "goto" songs that I can pull out at any time. I usually flub through new stuff I add and am guilty of reading charts and / lyrics but I try to at least learn the lyrics about 60% so that I can at least maintain eye contact with the audience every other verse or so to give the appearance that I'm looking at them all the time.

I usually fiddle more with my keyboard settings than charts and lyrics. I still haven't gotten my act down with registrations and styles. I'm constantly bit fiddling with those settings. I'm always trying to get the perfect beat for the right song. I wish I could be like Uncle Dave who uses 6-12 standard styles for all his songs; I just can't manage to do that.

Al

good topic.

It is my geatest weekness as a player, as I use lead sheets as a crutch even though I just glance at it. I am a reader, but I'm forcing to wean myself from the music.

I think like anything else, it will come in time with being persistant.

Other than that, what are some specific tips or methods us readers can implement to get to this next level?

Good post. I try not to use anything. Keeping eye contact is paramount. If I have to read a new piece, special request, it always slows me down. I try and commit it to memory asap.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

I always used printed music..till one day in the early 90's I had a job with a young lady, about an hour away...I forgot the music books...

I started out playing the more familiar tunes, and low and behold...I realized I already knew the tunes...Here I am 15 years later, and never haul sheet music to a job..

I even to this day can play tunes I played 40 years ago via sheet music...without sheets, and in original keys...I one time I always thought I had a photogenic mind when it came to sheet music....I could picture the songs in a fake book, right down to the page number[serious]..

Now lyrics are another story, I can remember many tunes, how be it, swapping around verses and words...but you know what? I have heard my music buddies do the same ..

I also believe a strong vocalist that backs them-self, can get by without sheet music more easily...just 2-5 ing there way thru a tune....

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/001532.html

I had a young accordion player with a mostly bald head in my trio. Most of the night he would have beads of perspiration falling down on his head while he leaned forward and read the music from his book. The same songs week after week. In the middle of one of our jobs I pulled the book off the stand and his face turned into panic. He never used the book after that.

This one is about seniors.
Do you know that a senior can learn a song and play without music and draw a blank next time the song is called. aaaaaaaaah!

I had the music in front of me, I announced the Bride and Groom they entered, than we invited them to the floor for the first dance. I was not sure of the release of the song, I had not done my job. I was concerned. I started singing they began to dance � when it came to the release of the song a waiter tip over a tray of dishes, aaaah by the time it got quiet I was back to the top of the song. There is a music God I�m sure.

I fully agree, if you are reading the lyric or reading the notes it is not possible to give it your best. Your concentration is divided. I guess we all can not be perfect.

John C.

I thought you were going to say that you projected the words on the back of his head

zuki

Certainly not shy.......just no time to update my web site. The time between jobs is always practice, practice, practice. The wife, in addition to her chores, is even cutting the grass now too

zuki

Exactly.....besides the head in the book stage presence....your a slave to the sheet.....instead when your "Free Playing" or improvising it allows your to do what ever you want & be more creative within a song without being chained to a certain strict regiment every time you play...it allows you to open your horizons musically, play different riffs, passages, use different techniques & lets your imagination go wild while playing with less stringent concentration which definitly becomes ROBOTIC & SOULESS time after time...I have repeatedly expressed my "BLINDFOLD TECHNIC" many times on the SZ which for the most part people think I'm nuts but it will definitly give your the confidence to play without Sheets or Lyrics.....try it sometime......Blindfold yourself and play a whole song & Sing it without looking.
IMO you have to learn how to play effortlessly with outlooking at sheets, the keys, while you sing to the audience....next exercise is to PLAY your KB while someone Talks to you so that you can still keep playing EFFORTLESSLY while your head is turned to talk to them....or listen to their request etc, etc ....without every missing a single beat......I relate this for example to when you first got your driving licence.....first day you were with BOTH hands on the wheel 10-2 gripped tight, tense, stiff & nervous looking straight ahead......then a month or so l8tr you have one arm around your girlfriend, radio blasting, Cigarette in you mouth, using your Knee to steer, looking all over at the pretty girls or whatever, BUT your still "Driving EFFORTLESSLY" now while your mind is doing other things....so you see my point...get into this mode of playing "Effortlessly" & let your fingers do the walking while your enjoy everything else around you!

------------------
________________________

Donny

� Choose a Job You Love, and you will Never have to Work a Day in Your Life! �
________________________
And HUG Someone tight Everyday....
You'll Feel better afterwards

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-30-2007).]

Zuki....when your ready take a few minutes & email me a few songs ...I'll wait

Donny, you're right about "the crutch". I'll start off with a "cheat sheet" for the first time I do a tune. If I throw it away after the first or 2nd time, I'm fine. but, if I don't do a tune frequently, the sheet stays around. Some I have are really yellow. I'm going to clean house this week.

Happy birthday, by the way!

R.

Is the thing that bugs you the most, Donny, seeing the music, or just the 'heads down' attitude?

I've seen PLENTY of non-reading keyboard players do that!

I really like the trend towards big color screens on the arranger itself, where sheet music, cheat sheets or just lyrics can be displayed. The thing is, these are being displayed in an area where the audience EXPECT you to look (at least from time to time) so you don't get quite the same reaction as to a 'bookworm'.

So far (due to my G70's OS) I only use it for the occasional lyric, but if I were doing a jazz gig, or a gig that involved a LOT of requests, having a cheat sheet display would be a life saver, and avoid the flipping through fake books between songs, etc., that seems to bug you.

The on-screen displays seem to offer the best compromise between the necessity of sheet music on some types of gigs (remember, SOME gigs require a vast repertoire of unrehearsed tunes) and the appearance (at least to the audience) that you are not reading from a fake book. Even a MusicPad Pro has to stick up and look like some kind of 'book'...

Certainly, learning your core repertoire as quickly as possible is part of the skills a pro should have, but off the cuff requests, or songs you may not have performed for a few years, what is better? To use the display, or either not do the tune at all, or clam it up badly?

Thanx Russ ...55 came to fast ....most times after all these years I can just listen to a tune and play off the top of my head ....after all how many chords combinations can there be? most are pretty mush the same ....ya

Diki.....the heads down staring at the sheet Constantly alienating yourself from the audience is most annoying to watch....playing music is a Battery between the Musician & the Audience which makes it all click. Intermittent downward glances to make changes are expected but there is a way to keep the crowd involved in the mix.....no matter what kind of gig it is.
Let someone video tape your gig & learn from what you see & hear.

I am lucky in that I don't have to worry about keeping eye-contact with the audience... in fact most of the times is the audience that keeps eye contact with me!

i know my core songs, but i also use chord cards (about the size of a postcard) with just the chord changes and turn-arounds) and some prompt words...the lyrics system on todays keyboards means all of these can be stored onboard and referred to when needed...so in effect i can have a rep of thousands of songs, rather than the 100 or so learnt by memory and then repeated ad finitum (ad nauseum) for every gig....
reading is a skill, and if not practised is lost...those who refuse to practice their reading would be useless in a session situation or when called upon to back for a solo artist, who DO use charts and god help you if you mess-up!!! nothing pleases me more than getting a new chart book and being able to play it from the "get-go" no practice first, no matter what key,...its certainly a skill i will keep practicing...my early accordion days also gave me the ability to not look at the keys when playing, so even when i am playing bass lines and right hand i can maintain eye contact with the room,with the occasional glance to a card for an unknown song....bottom line its okay for someone to read a chart, as long as they are proficient in physical playing skill and keep some sort of contact with the audience...although when you look at a concert pianist they rarely if ever look at their audience whilst playing, but they still entertain...hmmmmm
cheers
dennis

When you talk about an Entertaining Concert Pianist & Reaction with an Audience with the audience No One did better then the MASTER Himself.........
http://www.victorborge.com/

As a singer for years I felt and many I performed with considered having the words in front of you was a no no.

However as the memory has got worse I have had to turn to to the words on paper and have found that my performance has actually improved.

There was always a certain amount of tension
because of the fear of forgetting the words.

It is possible to see the words or the music
as well as keep some eye contact with the audience.

Afterall that is what you do when you sing the classics in a large choir.

We all have different abilities and short comings so our approaches will all be diferent and who is to say what is the right one.

Cousin Ken

I wish I (and my wife) could work without books.

Unfortunately we do 300+ songs that run the gamut from those tricky Jazz songs (I find the chord structure in some of those songs to be intimidating) to lyric intensive Rap/RnB
(anyone tried remembering the ENTIRE rap to Bust-a-move????)

We pretty much know our core songs too, but there are requests for stuff (or "different" gig situations we find ourselves in) that require us to do songs we haven't done for AGES.

Ya know, there is even a school of thought I've encountered where some performers think it's only PROFESSIONAL to have your lyrics etc handy because to forget the words of a beloved song makes your audience pretty unhappy, and does make the performer look silly...

It's worth noting that we use almost entirely SMFs - so the arrangements are set in stone, not arranger styles, where the PERFORMER can dictate the way the song goes (if they, say, forget a verse) so it really is a "discipline" to play with a sequence in that regard.

In short, we have our books within "eyeshot" and keep them unobtrusive to the audience.

We get the words right.
We get the arrangements right.
We do, honestly, a STAGGERING range of material.

All thanks to the books.

good post hellboy...

hellboy checked out your website ....are there any demos on there?

Nah.

We're working on it though.

We're going to video a couple of upcoming gigs.

Stay tuned...

Great ......I cant wait!!

good luck with the project.

Ya know, there is a KIND of demo on there.


ME!


Click on :

"See Greg's commercials" and you'll see a bunch of ads done for a Television Network in Australia (National - but only in Country areas - Southern Cross Ten).


They get weirder and funnier as they go along...

*ahem* at least I think they're funny!

No Expression or EYE contact with the audience looks like this when your sitting out there ........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TFnxIksYVI



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-08-2007).]

I've been lucky to be able to memorize almost all my music, so keeping eye contact is not a problem for me. I know that playing on those dark stages at weddings it sometimes didn't matter because they couldn't see us anyway. But in today's stand-up market it's essential.

I usually don't try to make personal, face contact with people - that seems too invasive for me. But last month when we played on the street I went out of my way to try to make good eye contact and talk to people passing by. In doing so, I seemed to catch the eye of a woman who seemed more interested than I was comfortable with. Whoa, Nellie... no more of that kind of eye contact.

cassp.....making eye CONNECTION is imperative to a successful performance...its that battery between musician & audience that creates the magic of music! Look right into their eyes and make them "FEEL YOUR SOUL" !!!

Direct eye contact is a western thing. In other countries, Asian, for instance, it's regarded as being rude and aggressive so one should be well aware of the cultural differences.

Taike

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 08-09-2007).]

Im glad I live in the USA

I'm glad I don't.

Well, at least we are all happy
t.