I just got a phone call from my Roland MI rep to let me know what was new at the NAMM show this month in Austin Texas. First, he let me know that the G70 is now going to be available to all MI dealers interested in selling it. The E80, E60 and E50 will still be sold through the CK division as I was told earlier. Roland has introduced a new 4 track recorder which will be available in August at a street price of $229.00. It can also be used as a MP3 playback machine and even has the ability to loop a section of the MP3, slow it down or speed it up without affecting the pitch.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566

Oh great........... now that I've payed CK Division's inflated price for the G70, they now give it to MI to knock down and I'll get even less when I try to sell it for a G80 (or whatever they'll call an E80 in a G70 form factor) :-( ;-( :-(

I don't think this is going to help the sales of E80s, because I imagine the MI price on a G70 will be about $2600-2800, and an E80 will probably still be close to $4000 if CK do the same as they did to the G70.

Now the E80 is an improvement on the G70, but not a $1400 improvement........ If Roland want to recapture the high ground in arranger sales, they are going to have to let MI sell the whole arranger line, and just leave home digital pianos and Atelier organs to the CK guys. That's all they want to sell, anyway..........

First what's "CK" and "MI"?

Hey diki,avenge yourself.Just pick up a Juno G instead!

CK = Contemporary Keyboard Division - digital pianos & organs
MI - Musical Instrument Division - all the techy stuff

zuki

"MI" is musicial instrument division and "CK" is contemporary keyboard division. All the console organs and KR digital home pianos are in the CK division.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene

I agree with Diki. Roland should have learned from the lackluster sales of the G-70 through the CK division. I guess they arent interested in selling too many of the E series in the USA. It seems to me that it would make a whole lot more sense if the CK division was just for the big stuff like KR pianos and Atelier organs and the MI stores carried ALL Roland portable keyboards. I am curious about their reasons. Anyone here who can, please clarify. If we knew why they do what they do, maybe we'd appreciate their reasons and then we'd have to find something else to complain about!

Their marketing department is so confused. Sounds like it is run by a mentally challenged individual.
"Duh, our sales for the G70 are not as expected, I guess I should have sold them through our MI stores, lets do that. I'm sure the E50,E60,E80 will sell ok in the CK stores though. The E series are like organs right? These marketing decisions are sooo difficult for me. Why didn't Roland give this job to my smarter brother?"
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 07-27-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 07-27-2006).]

Starkeeper the new E series are arranger keyboards, the E80 being the G70's successor with less keys.
The organ range Roland does is the Atelier and these are very good.

I know the E80 are arrangers, but does the Roland marketing department know this?
Starkeeper

It's as if Roland's marketing division went 'Sales of the G70 were slow......... what can we possibly do to the E80 to make them even slower? Oh, that's right! We can make it $1400 more expensive than the G70..........!'

Morons........

Yamaha's marketing department must snicker, when they hear what Roland does.
Makes me wonder about Yamaha's corporate work ethic. Even though Roland's marketing department is falling all over themselves, Yamaha will, never the less, produce an outstanding PSR3100-76. It may have 76 keys (let's hope), will have arpeggiator, and some SA voices.
Starkeeper

No so fast. Yamaha only sells the Tyros2 through special order. That means you can't play one first because Guitar Center or other MI stores don't keep them in stock or on display. I know GC doesn't and I'm pretty sure all the other MI stores don't either. OTOH the CK stores can and do stock them, many times at a higher price though. Maybe Yamaha and Roland are ashamed of their product i.e. the G-70 and Tyros2 and don't want people to thoroughly test drive them first before deciding whether to purchase one or not? Or perhaps they are just greedy. If people did test drive them first they might possibly lose revenue?? Just a thought. In fact that is what did happen to the G-70. Many of those that were able to demo it firsthand were sadly disappointed when it first came out. Now that the G-70 will be allowed to be sold at MI stores Roland is hoping the additional exposure will cause additional sales. I hope it does but it also may backfire on them especially if it is sold as a special item order only just like the Yamaha Tyros2; and thus again not allowing the customer to test drive it/them first unless they go to a CK outlet where a lot of times they will pay a premium.

Actually Yamaha and Roland are very sneaky. They are trying every angle they can to extract the most amount of money out of you and me the customer. From a business perspective it's actually a smart move (in theory) but ultimately you and I are the ones that lose out in the end by paying higher prices and not having the ability to demo them firsthand before purchasing.

I hope Roland allows MI stores to keep the G-70 in stock and on display. That's all I've got to say. Keep them in stock so a person can actually play one first. Since they've supposedly fixed many of the G-70 issues they shouldn't be hesitant to keep them on display, should they??

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-27-2006).]

Posted by keybplayer:

-------------------------------------------
Actually Yamaha and Roland are very sneaky. They are trying every angle they can to extract the most amount of money out of you and me the customer. From a business perspective it's actually a smart move (in theory) but ultimately you and I are the ones that lose out in the end by paying higher prices and not having the ability to demo them firsthand before purchasing.
--------------------------------------------

Well said! Regardless of how much you support either company--at the end of the day, they're a business...... It's all about profits, and creative advertising. Also keep in mind that being a business they have unavoidable obligations to their "shareholders". Sure we're the customers and they make a good penny off us us, but where would they be without their shareholders. They have a legal obligation to provide for them.

Are they going to try and get every penny they can? Hell yeah, that's classic Capitolist Mentality Make more, make them cheaper--keep the money saved in costs for making them cheaper (not passing those savings on to the consumer), give them only portions of what they want--because you have to leave room for the next upgrade, otherwise by giving them what they want--who will upgrade.

Not going to knock the T2 but take into consideration what "creative advertising" Yammie used. What was one of their major focal points..? The new Super Articulation voices. There were quite a few who dumped the T1 for the T2. Did their T1's suddenly not function properly because it lacked SA voices, and were their audiences screaming "Where are the SA voices". Were they booking less gigs because they owned a T1?

It's all creative ads to keep us the consumer buying and upgrading. As long as we keep shelling out over $3,000 for a high end arranger, Yammie and others will continue charging those prices because people pay them. We can control the cost as a consumer if we choose, but people fall into the "hype' and the "I gotta have that new lemon fresh model" they just keep shelling it out. Maybe if for just ONE year we all kept our current keyboards and didn't upgrade when the new models came out we could have more control over cost

It's all b'out the "Benjamins" Baby!

Squeak



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-27-2006).]

Sam Ash carries the T2.

zuki

I know all the marketing people at Yamaha and Roland and can tell you that both companies would love all the dealers to have a demo model on each stores sales floor, but reality is that most stores choose not to stock a high end arranger because of slow sales on these products. This is the reality here in the USA. If they could sell them, they would stock them. There are many reasons. Poor sales help, a high learning curve and most often heard, not as many musicians interested in high end arrangers vs studio workstation type keyboards like Motifs, Fantoms and Tritons. Again, I go back to the average age of musicians working in big chain stores. Most of the sales guys are under 30 years old and don't want to play styles but rather tweak sounds in a Synth keyboard. The manufactures are not at fault here.......the store managers hiring people to work in stores. Yes, I sell a lot of arranger keybaords, but I'm 56 years old and I choose to stock and sell these. Yamaha, Roland and other manufactures come to me and know I will stock their high end arrangers. They try to get stores all around the USA but often hit dead ends from the dealers. We all must buy our demo keyboards and invest our money to stock them and if they aren't going to sell because of all the reasons mentioned, then they won't show up when you look for them.
So, don't think all the blame lies with the manufactures. The blame lies more with each independent or chain store management.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Well said George.

In addition, remember that the US has only about 5% of the European market.
You would have no trouble finding high end arrangers in many bigger stores.
Thes are not just played by the 40+ years of age group, but also by young folks.

Eric

Well said George. As we know though, Guitar Center did stock the Tyros and they sold many of them I'm sure. >> I was just one of the many. But what I think has happened with the Tyros2, is Yamaha, in listing it at $4,200, has priced it so high that with a lot of customers coming in to GC they are shell shocked by the price. For instance, when I went into a GC recently, there was, lo and behold, a Tyros2 on the rack! What had happened was the guy told me that someone bought it (through special order) and because of financial problems brought it back to get his money back. I can see why he may have had financial problems. They had a price tag hanging on it that said $4,200! There was no discounted price because of the return. Most people would immediately gasp at the price and look elsewhere. I asked the guy what his bottom offer was and he said I could have it for, get this, 3 Grand even! But I don't think a lot of people would necessarily dicker like I did. They would see the high price and vamoose.

So that may be a big reason why GC decided against stocking the Tyros2 and instead made it a special order item only. Because of the high price. OTOH, the Tyros when it first came out was listed at most MI stores for $2,499. I have a much easier time looking at a $2,499 price tag than a $4,200 price tag. As would most other potential customers I would think.

Btw, that may be the same reason Roland went strictly CK with the G-70. We do know however that Roland personally stated that they would not sell the G-70 through MI stores. And many MI stores feel the same way with the Tyros2 apparently. But I'm glad Sam Ash is stocking them at least.

So in conclusion, money always seems to be the main instigator in what gets sold where. At least that's what I think has happened with the G-70 and Tyros2 anyway. Plus the fact that Roland specifically made it their policy to only sell the G-70 through CK outlets - until now it seems.

Best regards,
Mike