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#158043 - 10/13/04 12:13 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
I think that Grubba99 is looking for a more technical and specific answer; in fact he nailed the problem when he wrote "There's a bassist covering the bass, theres a guitarist for chords and theres a guitarist for lead (mainly melody, or whatever)
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME?
WHAT IS MY JOB IN THE BAND?"

Well,I think that the trickiest part is the interaction with the rhytm guitar, because in a band a keyboardist is playing chords, most of the time, and only occasionally adding nice riffs or fills or solo's here and there...
So the trick is: you should always avoid to play the same chords with the same voicings in the same frequency range as the rhytm guitarist, because this would lead to the so called "sonic mud". Of course this implies a lot of work beforehand: you could ask the guitarist to show you how he plays the chords in a given song, and then try to play the same chords with different inversions, maybe one octave above or below him, until you both are satisfied with the result.
With the lead guitar things are much simpler: you just have to discuss with him beforehand which solos will be taken by whom.
Hope I answered at least in part your question and.... good luck!
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#158044 - 10/13/04 12:54 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
RicFreak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 135
Loc: Italy
There are many differences, but the main one is that you should share the load of the song.

Your left hand is almost free from its rhytmn job, because there are a bass and a drum for this, and your main job will be:
1) pad chords
2) a couple of solos here and there

So the main problem is your satisfaction: will the joy of playing in a band with other people be enough? Will you like your "reduced" role?

I enjoy very much playing in band, but I have to say that I am not a good solo player, and sometime I need to hide myself behind the group.

Ciao
Riccardo

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#158045 - 10/13/04 05:22 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2867
Loc: Tampa, FL
Grubba,

Can you give us a playlist or Setlist your band will be using?

I will tell you exactly what to play song-by-song!

Don't forget, guitarists strum the rythm. It's the keyboard players responsibility to keep the background harmony steady OR you can trade off with the guitarist and you keep the rythm while he/she keeps the backbone chords/harmony.

Give me a few song examples and we'll give you samples of what you should play.

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 10-13-2004).]
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#158046 - 10/13/04 05:49 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2206
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer:
So the trick is: you should always avoid to play the same chords with the same voicings in the same frequency range as the rhytm guitarist, because this would lead to the so called "sonic mud". Of course this implies a lot of work beforehand: you could ask the guitarist to show you how he plays the chords in a given song, and then try to play the same chords with different inversions, maybe one octave above or below him, until you both are satisfied with the result.


Is this for real? You mean to tell me a keyboardist, any keyboardist, could dissect what a guitarist is playing, how he is comprising his chords, and alter his keyboard playing accordingly. I can't imagine. I mean, if you can, that's amazing but that blows my mind. How long would it take to rehearse a song? A hour or so or a week?
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#158047 - 10/13/04 06:14 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
Quote:
Originally posted by SemiLiveMusic:
Is this for real? You mean to tell me a keyboardist, any keyboardist, could dissect what a guitarist is playing, how he is comprising his chords, and alter his keyboard playing accordingly. I can't imagine. I mean, if you can, that's amazing but that blows my mind. How long would it take to rehearse a song? A hour or so or a week?


That's exactly correct. It shouldn't take long for a couple musicians to figure out that they're playing on each other's notes. It's real simple for a keyboard player to play block chords in that middle C range and have them lost - or worse yet, muddied up - with the rhythm guitarist. That's why I originally said playing in a band permits you to "spread out your chords." I find that when playing WITH the band I predominantly rely on piano and organ sounds. I use the others for color. But what I also do is play play up or an octave so that I can be heard (how often have you seen those B3 players screaming at the top of the register). I also find that drawbars can give me harmonics that cut through even at lower volums. Strings are famous for getting lost, especially in the middle registers, so percussive sounds like piano and organ IMO work best.
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#158048 - 10/13/04 07:29 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer:
"There's a bassist covering the bass, theres a guitarist for chords and theres a guitarist for lead
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME?
WHAT IS MY JOB IN THE BAND?"


It sounds like you need to LISTEN to more music before you venture out and play live. The magic and fun of live ensemble playing is an artform in itself, and can best be learned by listening to bands that play your type of music.

Organs and strings generally sustain, while pianos and clavs are played more percussivly. Brass lines are usually a "hook" that defines the tune - just copy the riff.

The main trick here is no trick at all:
Listen
Study
Practice
Then, get out and have some fun with your skills !
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#158049 - 10/13/04 09:06 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Yes.... but you quoted me, and I was quoting Grubba 99...
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#158050 - 10/13/04 12:21 PM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Sorry ... my response goes to the original quote !
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#158051 - 10/13/04 02:16 PM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
It sounds like you need to LISTEN to more music before you venture out and play live. The magic and fun of live ensemble playing is an artform in itself, and can best be learned by listening to bands that play your type of music.


UD gave the answer before I did ... but I would expand it to LISTEN to other groups playing your type of music and OTHER types, so you can get different ideas as to what can or should be played ...
You never mentioned what type of music you are playing ... In some types (particularly jazz and 'American Songbook' standards), unison playing by kb (using piano or vibes voices, or even a 'human' voice) and guitar can add a beautiful effect ...
Again, to quote UD: listen, study, practice, have fun ...
t.
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#158052 - 10/15/04 07:57 AM Re: Keyboardist with a band -HELP
rhp52 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by shboom:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grubba99:
[b]
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME?
WHAT IS MY JOB IN THE BAND?

Your job is ALL that other stuff that no one else can do. All the subtle fills, the string or brass pieces, the big B3 solo, the tight perc organ, the light chimes that make the couple sitting four tables away go "Wow...that's nice".
YOU..my friend.....do all the Magic!![/B]

Hope this helps. First you say there are two guitars in the band, that's unusual for a niter band.Having said that, try to fill out the 'back of the band' as has been mentioned previosly if not in these specific terms.
If you are a soloist and are happiest being a soloist no band is goiing to make you feel 'utilized. some soloists simply have trouble understanding the team concept.
All these answers to your question have bveen right on.

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