Diki,
Just because the demos of the MS may be less than stellar doesn't mean the board's not capable of producing good quality. Lionstracs is a small company. There's the good and bad. The most obvious is Dom doesn't have the financial resources of the big three, so a team of demo production specialists may not be within his reach due to cost. I think the demos out there at least give an "idea" of what the units can do, and that's the whole purpose of a demo. It's to give an idea of the unit can do. Again the quality of that "idea" rests heavily on available funds.

However with the big 3 you'll never get the level of customer service as you do from Dom. How many keyboard companies have the CEO problem sovling directly with the customer? How many CEO's show up at your door step to help (as Dom has done).

The MS is an awesome unit, and I think the biggest hold back for it in the arranger community is the word "computer". The MS is basically a killer midi controller built around a computer. The MS has an indepth operating system and is capable of doing things that would put closed system arrangers to shame. However these features aren't known because arranger buyers are commmonly looking for the "out of box" type unit. Often IMO I find that arranger players don't want to fiddle with indepth editing and a "computer like" operation system. Sometimes saying the word "midi" here is like yelling FIRE in a crowded room

I think that "out of the box" expectation is a definitive line between the arranger player and synth player. Synth players like to "program", and "edit" until our fingers can't take it no more Arranger players IMO often look for the "instant gratification" and there's nothing wrong with that either. Just two different sides of the music world of performers really.

Hi,

in my experience I would like to suggest you to not judge a sound in terms of Gbytes.
A 3 or 4 GB piano it's not for sure better of a smaller one.
I remember one of the best piano I've tried was a small size one, from the Miroslav Vitous collection. While sampling there are too much factors that change the sound (mic type, mic position, pre-amp used, wave editing, etc) and for sure Miroslav big experience (and very good hears) has done a much better job than others around.

Of course this library is now old and most of the current one are far better, anyway what impressed me (but also some friends around) was to understand that these few MB of sample were much better than the fabulous GigaPiano for instance.

Just sharing my ideas.

Regards.


[This message has been edited by Booby (edited 04-10-2007).]

Hi again Liontracs / Dominic...
Can I write to you ??? Perhapse you can write to me... I have something I wanna talk to you about...

Kind regards
Lars Plovmann

But squeak.... the MS is being marketed as an ARRANGER. Domenik is posting here, not on the workstation forum (well, maybe he is, I don't go there! But this is what is demoed on HIS site, NOT primarily it's workstation capabilities).

This is an awfully expensive arranger with very few good styles. All I am saying is, will the people who claim we just don't 'get it' PLEASE post something that proves that they do.....

It's kind of like saying that a Cray supercomputer has limitless possibilities, but for all but the world's top programmers, you can't even surf the web or write an email on it without first writing the entire program....!

For it's non-arranger functions, most of us already have a computer already capable of doing that. So why pay so much for a crippled arranger? Domenik just simply refuses to understand the arranger market. It is styles, styles, styles, THEN features. His development path seems to be features, features, features, then MAYBE styles. No.... let's add one more 'feature' - nobody needs good styles, they are all world class style developers. Let them roll their own.

Squeak, be honest. When you go out and gig, how many of the styles you use did you write completely by yourself? Imagine having to write all the ones you DO use before you could even gig. Not a pleasant thought. And you are one of the few real 'tweakheads' here. 99% of us won't touch an arranger with a barge-pole if we had to write all our own styles (to sound as good as a T2 comes out of the box). Maybe Dom is willing to show up on our doorsteps and program some T2-beating styles. Now THAT would be customer service....!

Domenik had better decide if he wants to make an arranger, or a workstation, and soon. Either quit making new 'features' and spend an entire year of R&D money on styles ALONE, give up on the thought that there are many potential customers willing to 'roll their own', or move over to the workstation forum, and market the MS as it really IS.... a very capable workstation with some half-baked styles in for quick songwriting.

We don't want 'potentiality', we want 'reality'!

Diki, I understand your points man I really do, but I also am not as hard on Dom as I guess others would be given the size of his company compared to the big three ya know.

About using my own styles... Did it ALL THE TIME man The thing is that I like writing styles. Sure there were some preset styles that I edited. Got rid of this track, added that track, took out the boring snare part, made it more lively ect.

I guess what's different with me than with some here is I LOVE TO PROGRAM Some here aren't into it, and there's NOTHING wrong with that at all. Me I like to rip into something and turn it inside out if I can.

I think if Dom had better style writers he'd have much more success with the MS. I too agree that the styles are the weakest point on the MS. You are right that in "arrnager world" it's styles, styles, styles. Hopefully in time Dom can employ some good style writers. He has got the system, the sounds, and the interface. Just needs a few good people behind the controls.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-10-2007).]

Hi Lionstracs
To help you along, why don’t you post some Tyros 2 styles demos, as I believe you said in a previous thread that the Mediastation can now use Yamaha styles? (It should also help to show its arranger capabilities)
It will certainly be cheaper then having to spend vast amounts on developing your own styles. (Wersi learnt a long time ago that for a small company to output the same number of styles as the big boys is a no go situation, but if you can play the big boys styles then you can concentrate on moving the technology forward)
BTW For Korg uses I have been informed that Direct Play of Korg Styles is the next to be implemented on the Wersi OAA. (Open Art Arranger)
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

Bill,

It is interesting that Wersi can play Yamaha - and soon Korg - styles directly, but do they really sound as good as on the original keyboard they came from? Yamaha styles depend heavily on Megavoices and Korg styles use the RX sounds. And having the original drum and bass sounds is also very important. I can't see how the result can be better than styles converted with software like Style Works which normally need a lot of tweaking to sound acceptable.

Kind regards,
Tommy

[This message has been edited by TommyF (edited 04-10-2007).]

All around are good styles. You must only pick up them and you can play. But what is with you guys. You are complaining about that some keyboard is weak about styles. On other side you are saying that big three are having all. I can say you that are no keyboard that is having all. But you must make your own styles or own sounds. That is possible only with open keyboards. Please don't say me that out of box are good keyboards. Let me know is somebody is playing now on arranger from 20 years ago on live performance. But with open source keyboard it can be possible and this is what is causing afraid for all closed keyboards manufacturers.

I thing now is time to say that in future we will need open systems. LIONSTRACS MS, WERSI, KETRON AUDYA and many others must come out in every store and this is not enough, if seller will not know to sell them. I saw guys who afraid to sell these things because they don’t know that also these things are out of box. You must only thing what you need. If you need this out from box than you can not expect the best from them but if you know to use them than you can see that this are really good powerful things.

Guys please don’t say that factory styles are all. Here is possible much more.

I told you a long time ago that I will not post any of my song here because some of you are really like children. If somebody wants to hear my keyboards than can e-mail me and I will give him my MSN or YAHOO MSN and we can play together and share minding.

I was only sorry that I can not test AUDYA on MUSIC MESSE. Next year KETRON can prepare some AUDYA for testing. I don’t know why no keyboards there were for test. But demonstration was really great. I want only to see if all that is played by player but that was not possible to see.

I was also not seen WERSI there. Is nothing new or is this fair not important for them?

But I test new models of LIONSTRACS MS. I can tell you that are really faster and better.

Thanks that you read my post and sorry if I disturbed somebody here. I did not want to do that.


MAGICA ALFA

[This message has been edited by Magica Alfa (edited 04-10-2007).]

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[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 04-11-2007).]

Hi Tommy
The five styles I have posted are genuine Tyros 2 styles played back with the OAA (No editing or modification) on the Wersi OAS instrument, so if you have access to a Tyros 2, or can listen to some Tyros 2 demos, then you can make your own decision as to how accurate they are.
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill