I recently had the pleasure of joining up with AJ and some other nice folks at his Jacksonville Ketron workshop. On display was the Midjay, EXP SD1, and the new SD5. It was a very enjoyable, entertaining, and educational afternoon. I give my highest recommendation to attend one of AJ's workshops, should you have the opportunity... you will learn much and have a good time.

The SD5 keyboard is 61 keys, velocity sensitive with 6 vel curves and aftertouch. It utilizes a pitch and modulation joystick. The layout is similar to the SD1, with the most noticable difference being the inclusion of onboard speakers, which are very good sounding.

290 orchestral preset sounds, > 1000 percussive sounds, 32 part multitimbral, 110 user voices, 10 digital drawbar effects 120 programs, 4 voices, 4 splits, sustain, port, vel switch, several program modes, 292 second voices, 24 new drum sets, drum mixer, manual drums, 62 live drum sets. The arranger includes new Real Latin, Unplugged (emphasis on guitars and bass, no drums), and Ballroom.

New features include Riff, Arranger Mute, After Fill, Smart 7th, Alternative Bass, Swing Bass, and Professional Guitar templates.

The SD5 does not have a sequencer, but will record real time (one take) to disc (HD or FD) and will play SMFs with karaoke and Txt files, converts .kar & Midi type 0 files to 1. Jukebox, Intelligent transposer, song chain, drum & bass, lead on/off, and drum remix.

Options include video interface, vocalizer, hard disc, pattern expansion, and footswitch. Size and weight are ~ same as SD1, 46" long and 37 lbs.

Some of the features I was especially impressed with... velocity affects not only loudness, but also the timbre of many of the voices. This is due to not only sampling but also modulation in the creation of these voices. New sound card, 128 polyphony. Organs and guitars are totally new and more realistic, with the guitars now rivaling the best of Yammy, IMO... and the organs more B3ish. Bass voices all new.

Many buttons (> 100), which are now better organized and leaving nothing important buried in a submenu.

After Fill... a new feature that is easy to explain. With AF engaged, you can assign a fill (drum fill) to the keyboard aftertouch, therefore your hands not leaving the KB! Way cool!

Riff... a new feature, which is also very cool, but not so easy to explain. I'll give it my best shot.

Riff allows the KB to learn from you, from how you are playing (most importantly, your chord progressions) and the style you are playing. Then, when you stop playing, the KB will continue with that same progression. This allows you to use both hands to play lead (eg piano), or to do whatever you'd like with your left hand..... like keep it on the joystick if you are playing guitar or saxaphone (imo, how can you play a realistic sounding sax or blues guitar without keeping your left hand on the stick or wheels).

The most simple example I can think of... "Evil Ways". If you start with Gm7 and C7 and then kick in Riff, it'll keep those two chords going until the cows come home, or until you turn off Riff. However, Riff can learn a pattern/chord progression... and apply it... up to 32 measures! That can be whole song!

Got that so far? OK, now it gets more complicated. Riff is not simply a loop playing over and over. On the contrary, it makes the progression with little redundancy, therefore sounding more realistic, as would a real live band playing. Also, as you continue to play melody, Riff will become progressively more complex, adding more sounds or voices, with each repeated progression. However, it will also "get out of the way" (tone back a little) when you are playing, so as to not compete with your lead, or melody. Make sense? Hope so... the feature sounds really good.

The final production SD5 will have 2 Riff modes. One mode will lock in, therefore the same riff will sound, with predictability. The other will be the learning, or random mode (more unpredictable, like real guys in a real band).

AMSP? Nothing announced yet, but from inuendos I'm picking up, with vocalizer and HD probably close to 3K.

I really liked the SD5. The only 2 downers for me personally... no second mic input, but that's minor... and only 61 keys, not so minor. Some of the new features enable you to make more music with less button pushing, allowing you to better relate with and enjoy your audience. That's important to me. Combined with some really great sounds, the SD5 is a winner... and one I'd like to own.

Glenn

So that means its sounds and styles are better than the sd1?

Glenn thanx for the review.......It intrests me for sure...the SD5 sounds like I need to try one out asap......
if I could find one ....?
Ketron is really listening to the players......we'll see!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-23-2006).]

no sequencer ?

.... listening to the players? ... no sequencer ?!?!?!? ...

t.

and no cdrw

With such great software based sequencers there no need for one on board.....it still can play SMF files correct?

"The SD5 does not have a sequencer, but will record real time (one take) to disc (HD or FD) and will play SMFs with karaoke and Txt files, converts .kar & Midi type 0 files to 1. Jukebox, Intelligent transposer, song chain, drum & bass, lead on/off, and drum remix.]


[

Many are the same or similar, which is good news IMO, but with additional styles and improved voices, especially guitars and organs.

Right on. With the SD5 you CAN edit, or 'tweek' a MIDI file. No details on what that exactly means.

Glenn

by skipping on the sequencer you immediately eliminate those in the market that want an all in one solution which is i would assume a fair amount of potential buyers. The SD1 i assume had a sequnecer but no speakers so Ketron have given with one hand and taken away with the other ? It doesnt make sense to me .T2 did not get my money for that and other reasons. Whats the aditional cost in software programming to slip in a decent sequencer ? It doesnt add to the weight does it ? Just seems to me stupid not to include one . If people prefer to use a computer then they have that choice even if it had a sequencer onboard. For a family man like me where both time and space are at a premium i would only ever buy a keyboard with onboard speakers and sequencer and all editing facilities on the board not via a computer (again for time saving and convenience)

If you can manipulate and edit the SMF file onboard, then it makes even less sense to have omitted a sequencer.

I second what spalding said. But I admit I am not the omb live musician. Rather want to stick to an arranger keyboard for composing purposes. Thats what other workstations owners are at least considering. So I ruled out the sd5 for my next keyboard.

Heinrich

Guys, no adding the sequencer would not add the weight. But it would make it harder for the customers to justify buying the SD1. The same can be said about the sampler, and probably about the 76 keys as well (the SD5 appears to be as long as the SD1).

If you remember AJ's posts before the release of SD5, it seemed like Ketron was intending to repackage their technologies (and make some improvements) and make a low-cost instrument. I think even the professional OMB entertainers would find having a playback-only sequencer a sufficient compromise.

My concern is that at $3000 MSRP (without a vocal processor), the SD5 is NOT a low-cost instrument by any means. I believe that the PSR3000 sets the price point for the "low-cost professional instrument", at about $1500 street. Korg PA50 and Roland are close to that - actually closer to PSR1500 (without vocal harmony).

As far as the new features go - having the 16 extra buttons is nice, but their placement, where they can only be accessed by the left hand, is questionable - they should be right in the middle. I guess the Riff functions are interesting, but they are relatively smal software enhancements, and if they are really that useful, I would guess that every SD1 owner should demand a software update, which will include them.

I am going to reserve my judgement as to whether the SD5 is worth its asking price until I get to see/hear/play it. However, at first glance this is not a low-cost offering that many manufacturers produce when repackaging their 4-year old technologies and producing a dumbed-down "middle of the line" instrument.

so you think it was a market positioning ploy by Ketron to omit the seqencer to make the choice between their high end arranger (SD1) and mid range SD5 more distinct? Its still in my opinion a marketing mistake. The SD1 has been out ages with only AJs upgrade kit being a recent innovation. I would guess that sales of new SD1's will have gone into decline when competeing with the newer top flight keyboards (T2 PAX). The upgrade kit as far as i am aware is only being sold to existing SD1 owners so the upgrade is only of benefit to existing owners. (AJ correct me if i am wrong and that the SD1 's being sold are all upgraded instruments ) The new sounds on the SD5 are excellent, guitars outstanding, and if i were an SD1 Owner i would be tempted to actually "downgrade" to the SD1. ( watch out for the SD1 second hand market) . so who are the new purchasers of the SD1 ? Is Ketron going to launch another top end arranger with the SD5 sounds and a fully kitted out machine, sequencer,VH sampler ? I saw the vid of the SD5 and it sounds spectacular but so did the tyros 2 and the PAX to me. But the PAX took my money because it was the most complete arranger as far as i was concerned, sampler, VH, sequencer , synth, on board speakers and product support ongoing updates etc.

I wish Ketron well and am happy that there is still competition driving the arranger keyboard market . I hope they have got this one right for most of theirpotential customers. Unfortunately i wont be one this time.

sorry heres the link to the video . Excellent demonstration by the way !
http://republika.pl/korgstation/KETRON_SD5.zip

apologies again , thats the audio !

heres the video www.mira-multimedia.de/ablage/disma.wmv

well, the link doesn t work
"error 404: Datei nicht gefunden!"

Spalding,

look for AJ's posts from about 8-12 months ago: he was actually asking members on this forum what would be a good compromise set of features for a lower-end arranger, and then he announced the SD5. Although it is mainly a repackaging of the selected SD1 technologies, it also has some new features and larger polyphony. Overall, I think this was a good attempt to produce a mid-level arranger (though my concern about price still stands).

Indeed, SD1 is a fairly old instrument (by today's standards), having been around for 4(?) years. However, Ketron has been pretty good issuing software updates which significantly improved the instrument over previous versions; they have even updated the sound set. Many times I have seen the manufacturers advertise instrument as being software upgradeable, but then these software upgrades are just bug fixes of the things that should have been working from the start. So in effect, this is just a way to turn the user into a beta-tester. While initial SD1 patches were all correcting bugs, some of which were fairly serious stability problems, the later software updates went beyond that. I wish Roland had done that with my G1000.

As far as completeness of the instrument goes - we all have different needs, and yours may well be different from mine. I need high polyphony and abhor heavy weight of the likes of latest Rolands and Korgs. Playing mostly live, I don't care about recording with the sequencer. Whenever I need to do a multi-track recording (which is very rarely), I am at home near a computer, where even a $60 PowerTracks provides loads more functionality than any built-in sequencer. I can see how someone else may want an all=in-one instrument, and don't care about the weight. This is why it is great that there is more than one model of an arranger on the market, and we have the freedom to choose, instead of being confined to a single one.
Regards,
Alex

I couldn't agree more. PowerTracks has a plethora of features, ease of use, and 1-800 free tech support. Creating files and transfering to the AK is a breeze. If you're not familiar with this midi/audio program, check it out:
http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

i hear you Alex and i understand that its all down to choice but like i said initially a sequencer will not add to the weight or detract from any other function that Ketron wanted to add but what it will do is immediately negate purchases from people who create on the fly or at the spur of the moment like me. People who can maybe spare a couple of hours a week toplay the instrument and dont want to waste time connecting Amps and computers and drum machines, synth modules etc. It is just impractical for me to devote one room in the house for music where the keyboard is permanatley set up and connected to other hard ware like a computer that other members of the family might want to use.

Just makes no business sense to omit it. It having one would enable just 2 additional purchases of the isntrument , wouldnt that justify having one ? Would the inclusion of a sequencer have turned people off the SD5 or increased the sales of the SD1 ? I mean how hard could it have been to implement the existing SD1 sequencer into the SD5 ?

Hello to all,

I am a former demo guy for SD1 and have always enjoyed Ketron products. I want to make sure that we define "sequencing"...

Is being able to record your own pattern/style, sequencing ?

Is being able to play your created style in real time,directly to floppy disk or hard drive, sequencing ?

It is my understanding that the SD5 will do both ... You can also edit midi sequences during playback and instantly save those settings has always been a ketron feature as well !

Dan O'

------------------
Ketron, Yamaha, Casio,Korg
http://www.baltimoremusiccenter.com
1-866-348-8876

Not really Dano. Thats little more than straight harddisk recording. I mean being able to create a track copy and paste and delete , not just pattern recording either . Proper sequencing

Spalding,

You are preaching to the converted (in a manner of speaking). I too would like a full-featured instrument (with vocal harmony, 16 track sequencer, a 100 GB hard disk, MP3 record/playback capability, etc), with 128 note polyphony, built in speakers, and light weight (30 lbs) sold for cheap ($1000). Only I also want 76 keys on it. We are both out of luck - this is not likely to happen. Even if manufacturers could build a keyboard like that for $1000, they are not going to sell it for that if they can charge more. Hence, we either have to get a top-of-the line keyboard (and pay accordingly), or compromise.

Finding it cumbersome to carry my 40 lb G1000, I don't want to get a 50 lb monstrosity, be it a Korg or a Roland. If someone wants to combine their gig with weight-training, the heavy weight will not be a deterrent to them. My problem is that there is no keyboard for any money that combines the requirements I listed as important to me, but that is a different story.

Getting back to your "makes no business sense" phrase - it may not make sense, but it is being done all the time. Remember Intel 486SX chip? - it was manufactured exactly the same as the regular 486 (DX), but then Intel would actually expend some effort to DISABLE the floating point processor already on the chip, so that they could have a lower-price, lower functionality offering which would not directly compete with their high-end product. I guess, Ketron decided to force you to choose between the sD5 and SD1, which, in addition to a full sequencer, also gives you a longer keyboard, sampling, built-in vocalizer, and hard disk.

Regards,
Alex

Would one of you guys mind helping me? I've read all the Ketron information in these postings. It's all Greek to me because I don't own a Ketron yet and can't follow the "terms" you use. I'm enthusiastic about buying one, and after talking to AJ I became even more enthusiastic. My problem is WHAT exactly do I buy? I'm a professional playing for many years. I'm not a hobbyist. I made a major mistake buying an expensive Roland once without knowing anything about it and I took a big loss. I guess what I really need to know, at this point is, as appetizing as the SD1 is with the upgrade sounds, should I wait for the SD5 or buy an SD1 with the "kit?" I do all live performing on stage and speed in the navigating of the keyboard is probably my biggest issue. Everything else, including what AJ told me, seems like it's the perfect board. I really would appreciate some comments. I spent 30 hours auditioning the G-70. If I had access to an SD1 I would spend another 30 hours on that.

[This message has been edited by Lucky2Bhere (edited 04-28-2006).]

I can not dispense advice regarding Ketron products, as I do not own one. I do know that their styles sound very engaging, though I think that after a while you may start wishing for less busy styles.

As far as navigation goes - IMO Ketron's system is a bit different from most other ones, and on several occasions that I had tried Ketron products, I felt a bit confused by their teminology (and I am not a technically illiterate person), and some of the details of their OS.

The only suggestion I can give you is - make sure you try the product you are considering, before paying money for it. This is especially the case with Ketron. If there is no dealer in your area, perhaps you can arrange with Ketron (or AJ) to buy an instrument with a 30-day return.

Regards,
Alex

Spalding....can you tell me who did this recording or what you know about it?
http://republika.pl/korgstation/KETRON_SD5.zip

Thanks

Hi Alex,
I have to agree with you.
Some of the terminology is confusing.
I'm used to calling styles :
" Styles " not patterns.

Intro's/endings, variations fills,
"Style Parts" not " Sections "

Drums, bass , guitar, phrases
"Tracks" not " Parts"

I read the SD1+ manual about 3 times before it really started to sink in. It is poorly written. There's no drum maps. I think some of the owners don't realize all the drums available to them (and the drums are an awesome feature of the keyboard.)
Don't think I've come across anyone yet who's used the "audio loop" function in a style. It's pretty amazing when you can sync an audio drum loop in a style.

It's a pity when a poorly written manual lets a great keyboard down. Spending the time learning the functions I wanted, was well worth it.

best wishes
Rikki


http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/makingstyles/


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex K:
[B]
As far as navigation goes - IMO Ketron's system is a bit different from most other ones, and on several occasions that I had tried Ketron products, I felt a bit confused by their teminology (and I am not a technically illiterate person), and some of the details of their OS.

Ketron SD5/SD2 demos here ...
http://ketron.groupfiles.com/folder.list.run

Thanks,

AJ