Me Too!!! I love constructive critisism[when directed toward another]..

It was between UD and ThePro whose former SZ name was ESH. I didn't get a chance to see it either but apparently it hit a nerve in UD. We are all adults here and if a person's integrity, etc., is questioned or challenged than the normal reaction is to respond to that allegation. My Grandma always said if you can't stand the heat in the kitchen then get out. Apparently ThePro did exactly that. Which, btw, is his right to do if he so desires and is neither seen as a weakness or bad in my opinion, ie., "delete his post". Sometimes deleting a post (although NOT the original thread hopefully), can be quite discrete and recommended in certain situations so as not to compound or accentuate the conflict in question. Hopefully this can all be ironed out eventually.

Best regards,
Mike

Indeed, that's all this should be: a matter of preference. Even if each of us decides to strongly argue in favor of our own preference. It should then be obvious that this, as other previous "cat fights", is no more than a personality shock, a dispute between two big egos (pretty common among musicians). There are a million ways to express an idea or to give an opinion but if you notice, from time to time the discussion heats up, and this cascade frequently leads to the route of inevitable crash. No big deal, but posts with less "personal content" (when they lead to unpleasant forms of expression) would be preferable (IMO).

I personally value both Dave and Esh's posts and opinions, as well as many others' regardless of whether the writing style pleases me or not. Honestly, I understand both points of view, and having the possibility to read them BOTH is the great thing about this forum. It stimulates me to equate my own needs and take full conscience of my goals in music! If I were a person desperatly looking for a model to copy in my musical acts, I would have a hard time deciding between the paths and choices of these two successful musicians!

-- José.

[This message has been edited by matias (edited 06-03-2003).]

I too, like José, value the opinions of both Uncle Dave and Jim Eshelman; it's too bad that Jim decided to delete his own threads and, very likely, quit this Forum for the second time. This is -to me- an attitude difficult to understand: you cannot expect that everybody agrees with you and -if they don't- go away slamming the door and maybe thinking "Geez, what a bunch of incompetent idiots!"
Jim, if you are reading this, please note that I tend to agree more with YOUR point of view: as you know, I own three keyboards, and only one of them (the VA7) has onboard speakers; in Uncle Dave's own words, the VA7 has excellent speakers, yet I find them hard to accept for my tastes, maybe because I don't sing (and I mean it!), so the keyboard for me is more than a backing tool. For this reasons, two months ago I purchased a Syrincs M3 monitor system; I did this without having ever heard or seen them, just because Roel expressed a very positive opinion about them (I trust Roel's opinion on technical issues a lot). I had to buy them from this german online shop, because they are not even available in Italy:
http://www.musik-service.de/ProduX/Recording/Monitore/Syrincs_M3_Monitor_System_mit_Woofer.htm

Well, I am more than glad that I did it; they are small (19 kg overall), powerful (68 W the subwoofer and 38 W x 2 the satellites) and -most important of all- they have a great frequency curve. I would go on and dare to say that they could almost be labeled as an Hi-Fi system. I am using them as a monitor system in my home studio and for the first time I have realized mistakes I had been making on my old mixdowns, done with my PC Cambridge Soundworks system 5.1. And they are not only small, clean and powerful (with a deep, DRY bass); they are also very good looking; they come in four different colors (black, red, blue, and grey); I did choose the "all black" finishing and -even from this point of view- I think that they could be placed in every living room (even in a millionaire's house) and be mistaken for a small Hi-Fi system.
I have already used them in a party given by one of my friends in a large living room and all were pleasantly surprised by the amount of clean sound they were able to deliver, without any listening fatigue (which usually is due to distortion, even if you don't consciously realize its presence).
Of course, this is just my personal point of view and I have no pretension to say the "final and ultimate" word on this subject...

It's simple for me. The speakers aren't a "must have", but given the choice, I'd rather have them onboard. They make for excellent "in my face" monitors, and are convenient when I play at home. On the other hand, I won't use them without something else, even in the smallest of venues. My basement studio is basically a 16 x 25 room that has decent acoustics, probably as good if not better than the average small room I'd play in. I was curious as to how the speakers of the PA80 and 2000 would sound, from say 10 or 15 feet away, so I recorded a midi file of me playing and then sat 15 feet away. I even went one further and recorded a vocal that I synched to the keyboard with N Track and fed back into the kb's speakers. I listened to tunes with and without vocals. In both cases, it all sounded decent coming through the kb speakers, but I liked the sound better coming through the rooms sound system ( at low volume ). It also sounded better when I used just my Yamaha YST-MS50 powered speakers. For what I hear, having the speakers point more "at me", as opposed to having them face the ceilng or point away, enhances the quality of the sound.

AJ

I turned off my PA last night at home and played just using the X1 internal speakers. I don't care how small the job, for me they just don't cut it. The ONLY way I would use them alone on a job was if there was NO other option. I played a very small 30 person party and I had to put a speaker under the cake table but at least the sound had some body and warmth. Maybe the Korg speakers are way better than the X1s but I doubt it. I still love ya U.D. but I don't agree on this one.

BTW it looks like we got your basketball coach. Go Pistons.

Yes, I deleted my posts. It's time for me to put things in clear perspective between Uncle Dave and I. I made a comparison here yesterday about some people wearing blue jeans on stage while others don't as a comparison about using cheap versus expensive equipment, and I swear to God it was NOT meant as a slam against Uncle Dave (I didn't even remember that he WAS wearing jeans in a recent picture...). None the less the stupid jerk took it as an insult and went on an attack against me, my name, my show (that he's never seen or heard) and more and I've had enough. I've really tried to get along with this backwards moron and his clones but it's useless. And I really mean that. So I'm going to focus on what I should have done in the first place: record my current live performances and post them on the web. This is where the gloves go down. Uncle "playing since 1969" Dave is going to get his opportunity to listen to what he's so eager to put down. Be back soon.

Wow! Pistols at dawn baby!

Squeak

Wow, what did I start now?
I don't like playing without external p.a. either, and I've only done it maybe three or four times in my career (30+ years). My point was there ARE times it is appropriate. The job last week had me setting up on an interior balcony with cathedral ceiling. It overlooked the living/party area. The acoustics were such that the sound was very full and smooth. I put on a midi and went all through the house before the party started to be sure. After all it was background music. Midway through the party, as the sun went down and the temperature cooled off (this is Louisiana) the guests started migrating to the back patio/pool area. The hostess asked if it would be too much trouble to move out there.
I said "no trouble at all". She said to be sure and not bother the neighbors, so again I just used the keyboard. Outside it was even better. The dozen or so people were all very close and I could interact with them. At least four additional bookings resulted.
I had two complete pa systems in the van. One was the little Peavey Escort, the other powered JBL Eons in two different sizes. Believe me, if more was needed, I'd have used it. The party was reviewed by society editors from two different newspapers. When the reviews are printed, I'll pass them on, good or bad.

I did another such party recently when all they wanted was someone to play their accoustic piano. When I arrived it was out of tune badly. Not being a piano player in the first place, I asked if they minded if I brought in my keyboard instead. They didn't care "as long as it was no louder than the piano". By the end of the party I had passed out more than a dozen business cards to people who were amazed at the sound and performance. It was an 80th birthday party, but nobody had to turn up their hearing aids.

A few years ago I was working a few parties for Amtrak. It involved setting up in a double seat in a train car and playing while people ate and traveled. At the time I took a small amp because I had a Technics KN5000 that was no good for vocals. Today I would have just taken the PSR2000 and eliminated all the problems. There were maybe a dozen people all within 30 or 40 feet. It would have been perfect.

The other thousands of jobs I've played all required external amplification.

It's amazing to me that such issues can't be discussed without bringing personalities into it. I won't delete the string because most of the info here is interesting and useful.
DonM

Pro ... It did seem that your post was a personal attack on what UD was wearing in the latest photos (of course, he did wear a tux to his daughter's dance...), and if you say it wasn't (and I have no reason to doubt you), and it resulted in his personal attack on you, your gear, and your show that's a shame ... BUT ... if it gets you to post some of your music for all of us to hear, than perhaps every cloud DOES have a silver lining ... ....

UD ... I have agreed with you on a lot of things, but I have to disagree with "No Esh ... No loss ... " ... I think the loss of any of the members of this board is a loss to all of us.....
t.