One big problem is certain instruments like the violin, fiddle, saxes (except "dry sax), and harmonica are all automatically set with vibrato. Every one of my midi files that uses these sounds awful because they are not meant to have vibrato on them until you place it there with the modulation command. So all of my sequences sound like those instruments are being played by someone drunk.

The one exception I've seen is the dry sax as this gives you the straight sound without the vibrato.

Why would they do this when they should realize midi files are always done with them expecting no vibrato unless commanded to in certain spots?

I hope there is a way I can somehow remove it being used automatically on these instruments.

Any idea how?

Kendall ,

Going from midi files being played on an Korg I-3 to the SD1 will need some adjustments . I do not think vibrato is a flaw . It's more natural sounding to me .

Send me the midi files so I can have a listen .


Use my comcast email oneils44@comcast.net

dano

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danosmusic@yahoo.com

I own a Solton MS60 unit, and it has a vibrato on/off option in the setup, so I guess there must be a vibrato off function on SD1. I use it all the time while playing MIDI files.
I know this isn't very helpful. :-)
Well, on MS60 it is under PITCH setup, try finding something like that.

Hey Dan. just left you a phone message.

If anyone else is curious, I have both my keyboards set up and ready to play the parts I mean as an example. If you want to hear it, call me at 416-469-3465

I hope there IS a way to turn off the automatic vibrato.

I don't understand why they would do that. that's what the modulation commands are for. To turn it on and off at will??

If it's on all the time, it sounds REALLY wonky when there are commands to "kick" it in.

The bad news is:
Those sounds are actually sampled WITH the vibtrato.
The good news is:
They sound much more relistic without having to use another controller, or hand to add the effect. If they sound bad in midi files -use a sound that has no vibrato in the sample. Nothing is 100% compatable.
You have to tweak when you cross platforms. That's only natural..... like vibrato !

*groan*

But it doesn't make sense. There ARE many notes that a violin, fiddle or sax hits without any vibrato. Sometimes it stays flat for half a note and then adds a touch of vibrato near the end, or what have you.

By making it automatic, you have no control whatsoever. That doesn't make sense. Haven't any of you noticed the problem with midi files?

Just one example is "Friends in low Places"

Measure 26 a distinctive fiddle part starts. On the Solton it sounds way off because of the vibrato through the whole thing.

someone call me and I'll show you the difference. You'll see exactly what I mean. I don't see how that is sensible.

416-469-3465

J4F00,

I share your preference for samples without vibrato and adding vibrato using a controller or control data. However, many prefer hearing the vibrato without having to operate a controller. I think Yamaha's "sweet" voices are sampled with vibrato. If you think of arrangers mainly as instruments for live entertainment, then I think you can see why it might be nice to be able to have vibrato without operating a controller. I thought the SD1 could accept user samples--if so, add some without vibrato.

Justforfun000,

I personally see not a problem at all. The SD1's vibrato sounds great. If I should get a midifile that contains controller-data for vibrato, the removing of the data is done in a split second with the help of sequencers as Cubase or alikes.

As far as I can remember I never noticed your problem. The controller that is implemented in midi's often is the pitch-wheel.

Roel

Just,

Is the problem consistant or intermittant? I am having a similar problem with my XD9, but it occurs randomly and ~ 10-20% of the time. If I stop and restart the midi song, it will be OK. Is that what you are experiencing? Supposedly, OS2.0 will fix, we'll see.

Glenn

Roel, you don't seem to get it. There are many songs that DO NOT use vibrato on every note that those instruments hit. In fact many of them sound awful with it on when it's not supposed to be.

Give me a call and I'll show you exactly what I mean.

416-469-3465

Do any of you sequence your own midi files by listening to the songs by ear and laying them down track by track? If you do, you MUST have noticed that with the vibrato always on certain instruments that it was IMPOSSIBLE to match them to exactly what the song was originally.

Oh, and Glenn01, No. It doesn't appear to be intermittent. I've heard it consistently. Sometimes it depends on the key too which is Strange.

For example, I have the midi file "At Last" by Celine Dion, and it has a prominent violin solo throughout the song. Well it sounds fine in the original key, but for some reason when I raise it up 3 semi-tones for MY key, the violin's vibrato sounds a lot more like a wobble instead of a vibrato and it sounds off.

If it wasn't automatic, I could actually modify the track and add EXACTLY how much vibrato and in what spots I want it with my Korg keyboard.

So you see that in this case, I'm stuck with what sounds like a violin that's "off" until I figure out how to fix this.

I personally think that sounds have samples with vibrato are problematic.

Vibrato is mostly done in sync with tempo. So, those samples will sound good, if you are playing close to tempo when they were sampled in. but if you shift keys, you are actually making the sample faster, so the vibrato does NOT sound natural.

Unless you sample each key for each tempo, you can't get a universal good sounding vibrato samples.

I agree with justforfun... the modulation wheel should be used to get the vibrato effect.

OK, I get your point now !

As UD wrote : The sampled sounds are SAMPLED with all typical effects included.

A sax-sound changes in more than one way when time 'passes' :

Attack, envelope, volume, harmonics, brightness, volume-modulation (tremolo), windsound/noise and frequency-modulation (vibrato)

So it is absolutely 'natural' those things happen IMHO.

for example :
A vibraphone has build-in vibrato. Who wants to add vibrato with the use of the modulation wheel ?

UD is right : Just pick another sound that has no vibrato.

Roel

btw I live in Europe

Just for fun,
as far as I know, the SD1 is the only arranger that plays back midifiles using the internal sounds instead of a dedicated GM sound bank; this explains why, if I play the same midifile first on my SD1 and then on my VA7, the difference in sound quality is really stunning, especially for what refers to the drum track.
Maybe, if the SD1 had a dedicated GM sound bank, this vibrato problem would disappear, but frankly I am more than willing to put up with problems like these, given the sound quality I get in return.
Like Roel suggested, you could simply try a different sound until you come up with something you like. If you still feel really disappointed, try to play the midifile on another keyboard and you will love your SD1 again.

Samples with and without vibrato are both useful. Using a synth's LFO (controlled via the mod wheel) does not yield a realistic vibrato. The best way to get a realistic vibrato is to have it in the sample--in which case it is difficult to control. I do think the SD1 would be better off with a set of samples without vibrato that are used for general midi playback. But, overall, I think samples with and without vibrato should be included in a synth.

Yes, I agree with that last comment. Thankfully the sax DOES have a "Dry sax" that works.

But as far as I know there is no dry fiddle. :-(

The real promblem is that GENERAL midi is just THAT - GENERAL. It will never be all things to all people. It's a starting block, a template if you will. If something specific is bugging you .... you need to make it specific to YOUR needs. Thereis no way a programmer can anticipate the end result of each of the songs they create, because they will all be played on different media, in different ways.
Just use what works, and FIX what doesn't.
It's no ones responsibility to make EVERYthing work for EVERYone. That's YOUR job ... to personalize and perfect your art. Expression is a key element to excitement, and adding the sampled vibrato adds a realism to notes played in real time, that would be more difficult to do if you needed to access anothetr controller to get the effect. It's all ying and yang ......
you gotta give a little,
take a little .....
That's the story of,
that's the glory of ...
(well, you get the idea )