gotta agree with dan01 and diki..in fact in the way of bass leading or guitar leading, or chord changes per se, the modern styles structure (NOT SOUND) is very similar to an old RA50 i once owned, lots of root based chords, very very cheesy...even if you want to write your own styles you are limited, in a lot of cases, to C in the root position...

If your arranger has FINGERED ON BASS CHORDS or BASS INVERSION, you are not limited in any way.

The RA50 did not have it...it was a very limiting arranger...good in its day, but still short of what you can do with today's instruments.

As far as the bass lead in...not many people in the audience are going to sit there and debate if the bass line leads up to the next chord...they are more concerned with the melody and how the overall song sounds.

Ian

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Remember to leave good news alone.

Excactly ....they see only one person ..
they hear more then one instrument.....
thier ignorance computes in their brain as confused karaokesque what the heck is that guy doing up there but it really sounds good mentality...."Wanna dance honey?"

Absolutely right. No one in over five years of gigging with arrangers has anyone ever come up and said, "Hey, that bassline isn't right." 99.9% don't give a rat's about that. Let's leave that stuff to the nitpickers.

Truth be told, the audience doesn't know, and doesn't care if you use styles or SMFs. And precious few musicians do, either. Most of them don't care how you replace them, just the fact that you do.....!

There are probably as many solo entertainers (OMBs) using SMFs as there are using arrangers (possibly more, if the truth be known). This IS an arranger forum, so you are probably going to hear from them the most, but don't let yourself be fooled, if this was an SMF forum, you would come away with the impression that SMFs were the way to go, and arrangers were another, but flawed, way to perform.

Truth is, if you are entertaining, if you are solidly booked, if you get plenty of repeat business, it doesn't matter one jot which system you use.... NO-ONE CARES!

Only somewhere like here, where devotees of one particular way to make music gather, are you ever likely to find anyone that gives a damn. But both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. Finding which works best for each particular song is the real skill, and not getting too invested in one form of music-making or another will free you up a lot more than deciding 'it's arranger play or nothing!'

For me, the true weakness of arranger play is having to give up your left hand. Many of you may feel that's no great loss, but as someone who has spent a lifetime learning how to play with essentially two right hands (I can make my left hand into a pretty good organist, while my right hand is the strings or horn section or soloist, etc., etc.), having to compromise what 50% of me plays to just input the damn chords is a great loss. Others may feel challenged just to play the right chords at the right time, and not understand how much you have to give up to control an arranger, but many here, I am sure, do.....

NickG if you think you can input chords and STILL use a bender effectively, try this..... Play a solo while you are using the arranger, a nice sax sound will do. Record it into your arranger's sequencer. Now have a listen. OK, now mute the solo track, and play another solo over the top of the accompaniment, and record THAT (on another track if you can). Now listen to both solos one after the other. Listen to how many times you use the bender when you would have been using your left hand to play a chord in the second version. I guarantee it is a LOT. Most instruments that bend and scoop a lot almost inevitably do it at chord boundaries (amongst other times!), EXACTLY the time you would NOT be able to do it in arranger play.

There are a myriad tricks and licks that cannot be played with one hand, from fancy piano arpeggios, to syncopated funky clavinet licks, to banjo-esque cross fingering licks, and so on. Arbitrarily deciding that you will no longer play these techniques because of your slavish devotion to inputting simple chords with your left hand is myopic. If there is a way to still be able to do these entertaining and musical feats, by all means use whatever exists to further them.....

I honestly think that, from reading a few of the previous replies, that some of you have ZERO respect for your audiences. If they honestly didn't care whether you 'entertain' them with an arranger, or with a full band, there would be NO full bands. The truth is, they DO care, and they CAN tell the difference. They may not be able to articulate WHY they prefer a full rhythm section to an arranger - no-one is EVER going to come up and say 'I LOVED the voice leading on your bass lines', but if you replaced your arranger bass lines with a real bass player, or used an SMF with a true line, they will enjoy it more.

If they really don't care, why NOT 'local off' your brains out..... Oh yeah, that's right - then the only thing they might care about is how well you SING, something that might make many of even the pros here nervous! So you'd better pray they DO care, or the singers will take over everything and the only guy making any money will be the SMF developers.

Despite this being an arranger forum, I hope that most people's goal is to 'make music', NOT 'play an arranger'....

Diki...

Playing solo requires compromise...I'm willing to live with that...no problem.

Having a "live" bass player defeats my purpose of going solo, and will not make the audience enjoy anything any more than the auto bass...perhaps you might notice the difference, but the average listener doesn't listen for details like you feel they would.

Having fewer pitch bends while playing is not really a problem...having NONE would be...I'm very happy with the small compromise I make because I choose to play chords.

Giving up my left hand was a plus, as far as I am concerned...I played left hand bass and bass pedals for many years, but now I prefer to let the instrument do the work....you may miss it....I certainly don't, any more than I miss shifting gears in my car.

If I played Left Hand Bass it would require 76 notes,and, another thing I don't want...a bigger, heavier keyboard to lug around...

BTW..it's much easier to "work the wheel" while playing arranger chords than while playing L.H. Bass.

The bottom line for me is personal satisfaction while playing...I have found my way and it works for me...your way would not work for me, and, there's no way I can be convinced it would, anymore than the chance I would have convincing you of my way.

I've accepted the few compromises I've had to make to remain a solo arranger player, you sound like you might be still stuck between two schools.

Once I made the decision to use the method I do, there was no more pressure to be both a band player and a solo arranger player....

Life is good, my friend, and I am grateful to be still in the game, and enjoying music on my own terms...and why not, I paid my dues.


Ian



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Remember to leave good news alone.

Im not even going to bother getting into another Cat fight with you, all i know is, i play alot of dance music and use the pitch bend wheel a hell of a lot and i always use arranger mode.

when u hit a sustained chord with your left hand and a note with your right hand, there is enough time to move your left hand over to the pitch bend wheel and modulate the voice that your right finger is still holding down...

if YOU cant do it, that doesnt mean others cant...

I can hit and work the bender every bit as good as you can..... but I can work it MORE if I don't have to play chords. That's all I'm saying. I'm not talking about synth sounds, but sax, and lead guitar, pedal steel etc., that bend and scoop almost every note in one way or another.

Sure, you can get close, but you CAN get closer......

Thanks guys for the comments.

I just have to say I absolutely love style playing (of course, organ trained, I'm destined for chord use).

I tend to agree with Nick, there are many things you can do on the fly with arrangers, while executing showmanship.

I will probably do 95% styles and struggle through the 5% SMF that might be necessary.

Happy playing all,

zuki