It was reported in the papers today that Mike Batt had to pay a reported £100,000 out of court settlement for having a one minute silence on his album Classical Graffiti.

It was paid to the relatives of John Cage, famous for his piece 4'33", which consists of a pianist sitting down for four minutes and thirty three seconds and doing nothing. They sued that the concept of a performance that constituted silence was already copyrighted.

It looks like the out of court settlement was paid up so Batt would not have to spend millions on lawyers, even if he won.

So don't leave too many pauses in your compositions, maybe if they are too long you might end up sued!

This story is not a wind-up!

By the way, the funniest comment on the original piece of 4'33" was by Andre Previn who asked the composer "What do you do if the pianist doesn't show up?"

Oh my God that's absolutely stupid... How in the hell can you copyright silence....??? I could understand if his moment of silence was as long as the original artist, but damn just one minute.. So what now.., everytime a musician pauses to have a moment of silence we gotta pay out for it.. What the hell is this world coming too...???? We are a sad species folks....

Squeak

OOoPPpSss....
and I who did'nt say anything for about an hour.
I probably cannot find enough money to pay the
bill....
GJ

Quite a 'pause' for thought. I guess "Silence is Golden" for sure, at least in the case of John Cage's family.

The Sound Of Silence...

C'mon you guys shut up in here, can't you hear we're trying to do some recording.....Shhhhhh. Geeze, the silence is deafening.
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 09-24-2002).]

There were a few english comedy/singer/entertainers who used that concept 30 or more years ago.
If I were family from these old long past away artists I would sue the family of John Cage immediately .

They should be ashamed

Whew ... Thank God, I'm never silent that long !Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......Yada yada, yada ......

UD,
ROFLMAO
Terry

Because the composer credited Cage on his CD he sort of asked for it. If there hadn't been a credit then this wouldn't have happened. If you use silence don't say you borrowed it from Cage.

Good point Nigel...

Could we have a moment of silence in respect for this tragedy?

Nope. It would probably cost too much.

- Brian

I think he originally thought that by part-crediting Cage he was sort of protecting himself... can you think of a more spectacular example of shooting yourself in the foot? ouch!

Yeah I bet he thought that by doing that he'd avoid and legal action, but I'm sure he learned a lesson on this one.. He should have just said nothing about it at all.. You know that makes me wonder.. If this is applicable over there and it's copyrighted, what if someone here in the US decides to write a song and has a one minute pause in it, but doesn't credit cage for it..? Are they going to get sued for it??? One would think the copy right issue can be applied just the same here in the US.... It's not really the pause that's copy righted but the concept of a performance that constitutes silence within the composition.. So basically everyone is in violation of that copy right.. Hell just by composing a song on our arrangers and pressing the "break" button is a good example.. If we mass market the composition (say worldwide) that copyright issue technically could apply because of the legal loop hole based on the "concept" Also keep in mind the catch word here is "concept" You can't actually copyright silence, but the concept yes... Again it's a crappy way to sue someone, but hey some people do anything for money and there is always a attorny that's willing to take it on....

Squeak

new small print on the back of cds: "the gaps between tracks are NOT inspired by John Cage"

Also I work for a lawfirm and I'm currently a criminal justice major in college so I ran off a copy of this and showed it to the attorneys here.. They laghed their butts off on this one... The lawfirm I work for is one of the largest in the state and most of the attorneys here said that if it went to court they could have most likely gotten the issued dismissed, but the guy did screw up by crediting cage....

Squeak

Man my wheels are still turning on this.. Yeah it's a bullcrap suit, but looking at it from a legal prosepective I have to say it's brilliant..... To actually copyright the "concept" itself is just mind blowing, and just one hell of a great idea. By doing this of course you'll piss off the entire musical community, but damn that's amazing. Technically this family if they so chose could sue the pants off of everyone and what would end up happening is bands and musicians would start paying royalties to this family just because the "concept" itself has been copyrighted... I wonder if Cage actually thought of this when he his producer or manager copyrighted it....

Squeak

" "

copyright
D.Ladkin

Interesting comment:

"Also I work for a lawfirm and I'm currently a criminal justice major in college so I ran off a copy of this and showed it to the attorneys here.. They laghed their butts off on this one... The lawfirm I work for is one of the largest in the state and most of the attorneys here said that if it went to court they could have most likely gotten the issued dismissed, but the guy did screw up by crediting cage.... "

Regrettably after the American lady successfully sued MacDs for damages because she burnt herself with the coffee that spilt on her as she drove off anything seems possible so long as the lawyers think they can make it stick and the company on the receiving end has sufficient funds to pay up.

Personally I think Batt has had the best publicity for his new album "classical graffiti" that he could have hoped for, for his £100,000! Until this nobody had really heard of "The Planets", yet after this case I noticed the shelves were almost empty of the recordings!! Brilliant!!! Well done Batt!!!

Simon


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________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

I posted this on the technics board:

"I was going to remain silent on this but just couldn't ..... not to get off the thread, but in a world of ridiculous litigation, I read yesterday that some couple is suing McDonald's because their sons are obese ..... seems the sons ate McD's a few times a week, and McD didn't warn them that the foods were fatty !!!! Is there no resposibility for parenthood?!? .... what's even worse to me is that some court thinks this is worth hearing!!! ....."

squeak_D: ..... how many of those attorneys would have taken the case if it had been presented to them??? .... got to get those 'billable hours' ....
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-25-2002).]

Funny thing is that most of the attorneys here I showed it to said they wouldn't have even wasted the firms time on it, because they felt it was a pointless lawsuit. My firm represents much larger and more reasonable issues.. However you do have those single attorneys out there who want to put their name out and something like this is their bread winner... As for that McDonalds issue.. That's complete and utter bullcrap! That family truly has no grounds for this suit.. If I remember McDonalds was the first of the fast food chain to actually make available to the public a list of thier food which stated fat content, calories, and just about everything else.... You can walk up to the counter and ask for this document and they will give it to you.. This family is clearly a pathetic example of how our judicial system is going down the toilet.. They cannot sue because they're kids are little porkers from eating McDonalds food.. Both those boy have had health class in school and kids are even taught in school that fast food is fatty and high in calories.. Again this family truly has no claim on this.. I can't believe the courts are even hearing the case...

Squeak