As I wrote earlier, I thought it would be a good idea to have a place to upload keyboard tests. So I made this little page, where people can upload demos of their keyboard.

Now all I need is a MIDI file that will be the base for comparison between keyboards. I would create one myself, but I thought maybe more people could contribute, that way we might get a better MIDI file to use.
My idea is that everyone who wants to upload a MP3 file made from their keyboard, can, but everyone should use the same MIDI file to create the MP3, that way we can hear how one MIDI file sounds on many different keyboards, thus giving us a way of comparing sound quality.

The page is here --> http://espen.stua.biz/keyboards/

And MIDI files can be sent to my E-Mail, or posted as links in this thread.

I think it is a good idea. Let's hope others feel the same.
I also think 160 kbp/s and 1, max 2 MB in size, will not mix well. The song duration will probably be very little to actually do comparisons.

Theodore

If I am not mistaken, many arranger keyboards use GM midi voices to play play midi files.these voices are designed to be homogenous,thus, making good comparisons nullified.

I think that is a good idea, for exemple, i can record styles directly to mp3 with my PA1X if you need collaboration call me, i'll help you.
rblanchbcn@gmail.com

Hello,

What you say is true and not true at the same time.

If an instrument has the ability to play SMF’s (standard MIDI files) through its own sound engine, then it must also comply with the GM (General MIDI) specification. On the surface, this would mean that any given SMF would sound very close to identical coming from any SMF/GM instrument. However, the specifications have been re-written or added to over the years and each manufacturer has their own idea of just how things should work (which sort of blows the whole compatibility idea out of the water).

All of the arranger keyboards and most of the workstation instruments available today has at least 1 bank of GM sounds (128 total sounds in a specific order as per the spec) while some instruments have 2 or more banks of GM compatible sounds. Other instruments offer a way to switch out the relatively lame GM sounds for better sounds that are contained in the instrument. I.e. Instead of using GM Piano1 it may be possible to use a better quality Piano sound from another bank. With this in mind, you can see how playing the same SMF in various brands/models could potentially sound entirely different.

The idea of Doc-z’s comparison is fine. But I think it would be fairer to first hear the SMF played from each instrument without ANY alterations to the file. Allowing submitters to edit or alter the file brings in to the picture the talents of those individuals and shadows the instruments ability to playback a SMF as it was original intended.

A second comparison for those who have the desire to alter the original SMF would be fun as well, but I think it would be the fairest to start with a SMF with no alterations.

Just my thoughts,

Dave

Yes all Midi files follow the GM Standard for compatibility, however once they are loaded into the instrument, you can replace the GM Sounds with the best sounds in the keyboard, before converting to MP3.
As there seems to be some concerns with file size, it may be better to use a WMA file, as at 128k it gives as good quality as MP3 at 160K, but with a smaller file size. (Also, as all Windows systems come with Media Player, which can do the conversion, you will not need any additional software)(But do check recording levels)

Bill

I guess a major question would be how much if any, tweaking can a person do with the midi file.

Are we allowed to change the sounds different from our various keyboard midi playback methods? What about effects can we add effects.

Good point.
I think it would probably be better to have 2 files, one with just the sounds (Not instruments) changed, and a second using all the effects and volumes etc, that is available on the keyboard.

Bill

Ok, I appreciate the different inputs.

It is fine by me if we do two files, one "vanilla" and one with everything full blast from effects and stuff like that, or maybe we could have that in the MIDI file? Like intro/first verse is vanilla, and second verse is full hard core?

My idea was to take a standard file, and let people modify that using their keyboard, to produce the best sounding result that keyboard can produce, using both their talent, skill and the quality of their instrument. This will also show the real potential in the instruments, from a real world perspective, and not the perspective of the engineers at the production companies.

How you play the MIDI through your keyboard, is your business, if you load it through a disk in your keyboard, transfer it, or use a computer based sequencer is all ok, no criteria here.

I do think MP3 is the way to go, and since the midifile intended should be shorter than 60 seconds, I think the filesize will stay in the 1mb region. MP3 is more "global" than WMA.

Doc-Z

Ok, I've been doing some thinking,
WMA is fine. I will reprogram my uploader to take both WMA and MP3, that way people can choose.

Formats should be:
WMA or MP3 128 kb/s or better

Does that sound ok?

Doc-Z

Ok the system is up and running.

What I need now is a MIDI file, anyone got anything they want to share? Maybe we could compile a file from many MIDI files?
It would be great if the file atleast showed off the important sounds like:

Piano
Accoustic Guitar
Electric Guitar
Drums
Bass
Some Horns
Some Reeds
Strings
Organs/Synths

It should be no longer than 60 seconds.
It should contain some kind of acompaniment like a style
It should have a melodic solo
It should have a break / fill
It should have an intro and an ending

The file should sound like a band or orchestra playing something, not just a demo of alle the sounds.

Any other thoughts?

Doc-Z

60 seconds should be enough to compare shouldn't it?

And also, no samples that you made yourself. Like if you have a workstation or sampler, and you went to sample your own Gibson guitar to use as the guitar sound. That's cheating! All sounds should be produced from the keyboard, you may add effects to enhance the sound, but no sounds you made from your own samples. And if you use effects and tricks to spice it up I would appreciate you sent me som notes on what you did, so I can put that in the comment section.

Doc-Z

A piano shoot out has been done. See: http://svpworld.com/tyrospiano.htm
Starkeeper

Yes, this is where I got the idea from, but I want to test more than just the piano sound.



Doc-Z

Ok I made a MIDI file, so now everyone who wants to can make an audio file of their keyboard playing the file. Go crazy with both effects and patches, just drop me a note of what you did. All uploaded files get timestamped to separate filenames, so when you send a comment, be sure to include the complete filename in your e-mail (timestamp + your original filename) The timestamp is added automatically by the upload tool.

So I welcome you all to post your files!

--> http://espen.stua.biz/keyboards/

I will post my P-250 playing this file over the weekend, got a gig tomorrow, so I'll see if I get it done by sunday.

Cheers folks!

Doc-Z

I have a perfect SMF for comparison..Email your email address to me and I will send it to you.

Check your mail.

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 08-12-2005).]

I've posted some samples of playing back the midi using a couple of Soundblaster Soundfonts.
And I will post a Yamaha P-250 version withinn the week.

Doc-Z

Have uploaded the Demo using the Wersi Abacus with OAS6, using the GM Sounds with no modifications at all.
I will upload the Demo with the true Abacus Sounds when I get the time to set up the instrument for optimum performance.

Bill

Airfont GS is best so far..

We've got the following this far:

AirFont GS Soundfont
FluidR3 GM Soundfont
Wersi Abacus OAS6
Edirol SD-90
Technics KN-7000

---------------------------------

Maybe someone will contribute another midifile, differen't from this one, that can show other aspects of the instruments? That way we can have two files for comparison.

Doc-Z

Doc-Z..I did send you two great sequences to show key instruments...Did you get them?

Yes Frank, I got them. And yes they sounded great, and would be perfect for this page. But accourding to the information in the MIDI files they are copyrighted. If you can obtain permission to use them from their origin, I would be more than happy to put them out there.
I sent you a mail on this.. did you not recieve it?


Doc-Z

Doc-Z, I recieved the sequences when I purchased Hyper Canvas..I am allowed to use the sequences.. They are also freely available on the Company site..As long as they are not used for financial gain..I am sure there is no problem..Fran

Ah, ok, I will post one of them on my page..
Thanks!

Doc-Z

Hi

And the test winner so far is?

My opinion

1. Roland G-70
2. Edirol SD90

Regards

Wow, I'm getting a lot of samples now! But I want more!! I must say I am very impressed with that Apple Garageband sample! Brilliant stereo image of the tunes, the overdrive guitar could have been better, but on that swing sample it's really cooking!
Would love to hear Yamaha versions using sweet, cool and megavoices...

Doc-Z