Thanks, Mark, for the clarification. I think it kind of confirms what I thought I heard in the factory demos.....

But, once again (as I so often seem to find myself misunderstood despite trying to be clear!) I repeat - I am probably going to end up with one of these, or something similar, as soon as the dust has settled. Potentially, it is the future of keyboards, but for me I think it is not the present.

When it sounds better OOTB than the competition, it will be a no-brainer. Until then I repeat - Domenik, LISTEN to what most arranger users want and provide it, and they will beat a path to your door.....

Diki
You are right - the MS is the future which is why I am sticking with it - I have been unhappy from day 1 with certain aspects (Stles and some sounds) but very impressed with the way Dominic is working with the plans for the future. We are just about to get a new OS update, more sounds and as I said he is working on about another 300 styles - so OOTB is not currently on par - but soon it will not only be on par but leave the competition chasing...
I hope my view is now a little clearer.. I enjoy my MS but I just want more from it and then it will be excellent.
Regards
Mark!

nothing 60 lbs is going to be the future of arranger kb's.
cut the weight in half--now there's the future.

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Miami Mo

The Wersi Abacus is heavier than the Mediastation and in my opinion Wersi represents the finest arranger/workstation on the market today. When Lionstracs gets the new ISO finished it will be closer in performance to the Wersi in operation but Wersi still has the others beat hands down when it comes to the wonderful factory sounds.

If you base what you buy just from being light weight you aren't going to have many options to choose from and certainly not the best keyboards available. I've yet to see any serious musician limit what he or she will buy because its too heavy, especially if it offers better sound, more features, and superior build quality. My Korg Oasys weighs a ton but that didn't stop me from buying one. If it works for what I need it to do why should I care if its heavy? That's what roadies are for. My Fairlight CMI III weighs almost 200 pounds and cost me more than a small house back in the 1980's but I still bought one. Why? Because it sounds amazing and it's built like a tank!

I think its funny that some people will pay a lot of money for cheap plastic keyboards like the PSR-3000 and Tyros 2 and expect them to hold up under the rigors of everyday use. The PSR-3000 isn't even a professional product designed for extensive daily use, its a home keyboard. Sure the PSR sounds OK, but next to my Wersi it sounds like poop.

The Mediastation sounds pretty damned good and has an incredible dynamic range. In fact its dynamic response is much broader than the Korg Oasys which sounds quite amazing. I'd not call it unusable by any stretch but if you want to make that assumption based on an web MP3 demo, by all means that's your prerogative.

Most people are forgetting one thing about open ended systems, they are open ended for a reason. The end user can load and play whatever sounds, styles, VST's, or audio files they need or want to. While I do believe companies like Lionstracs can benefit by providing a larger stock library with their products, its not necessary for them to do so. The end user can easily achieve what they want with the Mediastation by simply loading new sounds, styles, and audio files in.... hardly a difficult task.

I have lots of GIGA samples and other VST's I use with my open ended keyboards (Wersi, Mediastation) and if I need more styles, sounds, etc., I'll buy them. I didn't get an OAS style system and expect the manufacturer to give me thousands of dollars worth of samples for free. You wouldn't buy a car and expect to get gas for free for the rest of your life. Do you expect computer manufacturers to give you for free all the programs you want to use with your new computer system? I'll bet not. Domenik and Lionstracs are giving MS users sounds, styles, VST's, and software for free so the user can utilize them, edit them, or choose not to use them if they are so inclined. That's pretty fair considering no other manufacturer to date has provided that type of support. Even the new software in my Korg Oasys came with a demo Plug-In that I had to spend another $250 to get authorized. Hardly free but still worth the money.

Every time I load a new OS, new samples, or new styles in my system it's like having a new keyboard all over again. Try that with an embedded keyboard!

FRAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE MEDIASTATION, BUT MY EMAIL COMES BACK
REJECTED FROM YOUR NNI ADDRESS. CAN YOU EMAIL ME
WITH YOURS AND/OR PHONE? THANKS.

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Miami Mo

The end user can easily achieve what they want with the Mediastation by simply loading new sounds, styles, and audio files in.... hardly a difficult task. Thats a matter of opinion..loading styles is not that easy to someone who has never done it and I dont think it is too much to ask a manufacturer to supply at least a small amount of QUALITY styles...is it?

Well, I am a very serious musician but I'm not going to risk
another hernia or aggravate my back or wear myself out on gigs in smaller venues, which is what I work, without
benefit of a roadie. Not that I compare myself with these,
but Caruso sounds better on old 78's than most of the singers today on cd's, and Charlie Parker still blows all
of his followers away w/stuff played on borrowed cheap saxes and recorded on a wire recorder with a mic in the
bathroom. So i know I can sound really good on any decent piece of equipment, and i've been using "plastic" Korg and Technics kb's for 6 years without a single problem of any kind..not one, not ever. Sure I'd love to have the best sound/style/nav available, but not at the
price of knocking myself out physically..but that's for each
to decide. I see folksinger/guitarists set up 2 JBL Eon15's
on tall stands w/monitor, huge heavy mixers, etc that take
a lot of time and effort to set up/down and load into van,
for gigs in a tiny bar. Is their sound "bigger"? yes. Better?
God no, worse, because they think that replaces their
musical ability. A great performer will sound better than them on a cheap guitar, pignose amp and $20 mic. Will he sound even better on the big system? Yes, but not that much. Law of Diminishing returns always applies. Another great piece of advoice from many wise men: Travel Light!


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Miami Mo

I'm "serious" enough to have earned a pretty nice living for some 30+ years, and I refuse to consider a heavy arranger keyboard. Knock yourself (and your back) out though, if that's what you want to do.
Unfortunately, roadies are not in my budget.
But that doesn't make me not serious.
Happy Holidays to all!
DonM

This thread is starting to show the range of usage arrangers are finally getting, and the wide range of users that use them!

Ensnareyou has the luxury of a seemingly limitless supply of money (at least from his keyboard list.... a Fairlight, an Oasys, a Mediastation AND a Wersi Abacus, and probably everything else on the planet!) and never has to lift a keyboard himself...... congratulations!

Unfortunately, the rest of us live in the real world, where even affording ONE of those keyboards is a stretch on our budgets at best, and roadies are only available if your wife bears them and you raise them as weightlifters!

Taking financial advice from a billionaire is only valid if you have the resources to play in his league! $1000 dollars invested doesn't have the same power as $100M...

So...... in the REAL world, 60-70lb keyboards HURT...... Even 45lb ones are work!

Also, ensnareyou gets our posts mixed up.... 'unusable' (from jonesboy's post, not mine!) refers to the styles, not the sounds, or the audio quality of Domenik's demos.

'Fess up, ensnareyou..... do you actually ever GIG with the Mediastation, or is it just a studio toy you never have to move, or rely on for a show (by itself)? Under those circumstances, it's easy to imagine that not sounding very good (style-wise) OOTB isn't very important. But once again, in the REAL world (as shown by the majority opinion of the members here) the styles and OOTB sound and ease of use are the primary concerns of arranger players.

Most of us rely on ONE arranger, at most two, to gig with. If that arranger's styles are stiff, limited in choice, and generally translations from other arrangers, rather than tailored specifically to the strengths of the onboard sound-set, it's a tough choice for us to pick over arrangers like the T2 and PA800, etc., that come loaded with high quality, well balanced styles.

Add in the fact that the 'open-ended' arrangers are not the only ones that can add in new styles, and sometimes get OS improvements that add completely new features to our supposedly 'closed' systems. Plus several of them have samplers, to add to the sound-set (albeit with glacial load-up times!)

It IS refreshing to have a viewpoint on this topic completely devoid of concerns for price, weight, and usability or of the effort to correct that usability, but in the REAL world, most of us care about stuff like that. Maybe one day I will be in the same situation, but until then......