I know that sometimes is DOMENIC sad, that you are speaking in this way with him or about MS.
I know he is trying to make the best keyboard ever.
I know that this is the best keyboard. I made "my styles, midi songs, mp3" and all is working really well.
Original styles need a little time to be better. But this is nothing compared to what is offer this keyboard.

I know that most of you will be in future proud users of open system keyboards.
In this moment is this market not as big as closed keyboard.

Yes, we all must thinking for future. I thing, we need together common language.

You all need a little patience and we will have complete different and better keyboards.

I know that open sys keyboards are the best future. You must find your true.


Best regards.

Magica Alfa

"I know that sometimes is DOMENIC sad, that you are speaking in this way with him or about MS.
I know he is trying to make the best keyboard ever.
I know that this is the best keyboard. I made "my styles, midi songs, mp3" and all is working really well.
Original styles need a little time to be better. But this is nothing compared to what is offer this keyboard"

This is the problem. Define what is the best keyboard ever ? Surely your market will tell you what that means , YOU CANT TELL THE MARKET WHAT IS THE BEST ! and the EXCELLENT feedback that Dom has had which he somehow takes offence to is telling him what the best keyboard ever should sound like, its functionality and its WEIGHT. For goodness sake listen Dom ! If the styles are poor and importing styleS is cumbersome and takes endless patience to tweak (remember G70?) what good is an open system to a "professonal" ie working arranger player ?

If/when the MS becomes ready as an arranger to compete with or better the existing closed system offerings then i will look at the MS again ( despite Doms best attempts at negative marketing )

Until then i have lost interest although i will check out jonesyboys MS if only to see how it compares with the PA800. I will wait till the next big update arrives that hopefully will address the isssues i have raised so far.

Chill - I understand what you are saying - but trust me I have gone through the emotions about the MS - I have the PA800/E80 and the MS all sitting side by side, and you can play the E80 and the PA800 quickly and easily - but sometimes you just need a little more and this is where the MS is good - ,forget the styles - we have already established that these are no good - Dom would probably agree with this - The B4 and Pianos are excellent - and as you can now load in anything you want to make the MS sound EXACTLY how YOU want it to sound..maybe all Dom is guilty of is his marketing approach -what he is actually trying to say and what he actually ends up saying sometimes can quite often be misunderstood...he is selling the added benefits of the MS where as alot of us want to know "what is it like OOTB" and once this is ok - what else can it do? I am now happy with my MS despite the fact that I dont play it at home - but then it wasn't bought for that reason - when I go out and play live the sounds that I can get from it (Piano and B4) fit the requirements that I have for it perfectly...you will ultimately see what the MS can do and make a judgement on what you want/need and buy the MS or not - as I said you are welcome anytime to come on over and view my MS and see what you think. Dom - better demo's on your web site, both audio and video would help potential buyers I guess - but as a MS user I would rather you did what you are doing and that is spending more time on updating the feature set than re recording audio and video demo's...
Mark



[This message has been edited by jonesyboy (edited 12-18-2006).]

Your explanation of why the MS weighs so much is perfectly valid and I appreciate your taking the time to explain it. I'm sure you will find a good market fot it, just not me.
Good luck with your project!
DonM

Thanks for that Mark. I guess all will be settled in my mind when i get to hear the instrument in person and i will write back on the forum and say honestly what i thought of the instrument. Have a great Christmas and i will catch you in the neww year. Be blessed !

All the best - have a good one!
Regards,
Mark

i'm not an engineer so I'm not qualified to evaluate what is or is not necessary weight-wise to build a quality kb, and i appreciate Domenik's explanation of why he feels he has no choice but to make it how he makes it. if that is what he considers most desirable and what his clients consider most desirable, so be it. However, the necessary weight is still a problem for most of us and will always be. That needs to be acknowledged, not disparaged, and to understand that in today's world of advanced plastics and miniaturization and electronic sophistication, a product that needs to be heavier to get better will always be just a niche product. Calling the competition "home" units is not only insulting, it is patently untrue. Also remember that most users are not on any forum, and i'll bet half of the working keyboard players out there are playing gigs on much older yammies and casios. I see a lot of casios on duo/trio gigs. The guys i know who use them sound great on them, because they have some good sounds and the players are veterans who are not into equipment research and not into spending money if their basic need is filled.
If those are therefore not "home" units, then certainly the mid to top of line yammies, rolands, korgs are not either.
As i said earlier on, it's the heavies that tend to stay in the home studio, so let's stop the "home" pissing contest, OK?

As I also said earlier, a good quality synth action is far more desirable in terms of expressing all of the sounds, organs included, than semi-weighted, so why not let the piano-action dependent guys have a heavier 88-model option or let them use a separate 88 of their choice as controller? why not save the rest of us the 7kg(15.4 lb!) difference? Also, can the power supply not be outside the unit on the cord as Yamaha has done until recently? That
saves a lot of liftweight. I'm sure that there could be other
modifications to convert from metal/wood to strong plastic materials. The bugaboos that are raised about "solid" vs "flimsy" construction are just marketing tools, I'm afraid..they have little real validity for most players.
People will always justify that their Hummer is built like a tank. That's great, if you need a tank. I don't.

------------------
Miami Mo

Just in case the Mediastation catches on fire right Domenick? Therefore, because of heat issues from the CPU the FCC/CE won't allow you to make it with a plastic casing is that correct Domenick? Or is it because of 'grounding' issues with all the hardware inside? But if it were simply about 'grounding' then you could theoretically just use a metal grounding "strip" instead of the whole case having to be metal. So I am assuming because of heat from the CPU and a possible fire risk from the heat or if something were to short and something melted or caught on fire that that is the reason you need the metal case i.e. so the fire could be better contained within the keyboard's metal casing if that (God forbid) ever happened.

About the question of making it lighter, how about using a lighter, stronger, metal composite? For instance, if the case now weighs, let's say, 30 lbs., by using a lighter, stronger metal composite (which would allow you to also cut down on the thickness of the metal) you could theoretically cut the weight of the case shell in half or thereabouts. 45 lbs. is a lot more appealing than lugging around the 60 lbs. that the Mediastation now weighs. >> Although the weight of the Mediastation is not listed on your web site but the discussion here leads me to put the weight at 60 lbs. for the 76 key version?? I would also imagine the 88 key version weighs substantially more than the 76 key version does too. Probably 80 lbs. plus + right? You limit your potential customers by making the Mediastation excessively heavy in my opinion Domenick.

When you think about it, the professional keyboardist is looking for the lightest solution too. Not just the home hobbyist or in the Studio. Whether on Stage, in the Studio, or just as a hobby, lighter is always better in my opinion. PS: You CAN make a quality constructed keyboard that doesn't need to weigh a ton. The companies that have figured that out are selling the most keyboards. Not the companies that make their keyboards tipping the scale at 60-90 lbs. plus +.

If you don't mind being a niche market then you can continue to make them as heavy as you want I suppose. If you want to reach a larger segment of the market then making the Mediastation lighter would go a long way in acheiving that goal in my opinion.

Best regards,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 12-18-2006).]

Any keyboard that costs beyond a few thousand dollars is going to be in a niche market. Over $5K and your market is even smaller. The fact is simple, few people will spend anywhere near $4K let alone over $5K for a keyboard. Just look at the Korg Oasys for example.. it lists for nearly $8,500 and its market is so small less than a few thousand units have been sold worldwide.

Even if Domenik could make the Mediastation lighter he'd probably not sell many (if any) more because most people are cheap and won't spend that kind of money on a keyboard.

I'm curious to know who on Synthzone owns a high end keyboard like the Wersi, Mediastation, or Oasys. I'll bet there aren't more than a handful of us on here who do.

I'm afraid that I have to weigh in (pun intended!) on the side of those of you that don't mind the weight, as long as it is within boundaries.... While miniaturization is the buzzword in consumer electronics, durability is a long forgotten goal. The thinking, I guess, is that long before a well-built product fails, it's electronic and functional superior will be on the market, so why bother making it durable? No-one uses 15-year old mobile phones, despite them still probably being functional.

But a keyboard.......? No-one expects to pay the same price as a reasonable upright piano (which will last, with care, for a hundred years) for a poorly built plastic arranger that is sonically amazing, but will need to be babied just to get a decade out of it. I want durability first and foremost, with weight only a secondary consideration (but a consideration nonetheless).....

As to Domenik's rant (and Magica Alfa's halting English)..... I've said it in the past, I'll say it again - To be a player on the international scene, firstly you need to be able to communicate fluently in English. Hire a native English speaking Marketing Director, someone that will try to communicate with your potential buyers in a less confrontational way. Domenik may indeed be the most responsive arranger developer in the world, but he is just that - a developer..... NOT a salesman!

Lionstracs may indeed have the most responsive tech support on the planet, but while you may NEVER get an opportunity to talk to the head of Roland, you will also NEVER hear him slamming his potential customer's priorities, and stating outright he has no care whatsoever for their concerns.

While Domenik may have a very personal vision for what is needed in an arranger (apparently everything including the kitchen sink!) his potential buyers have a more focussed set of wants and needs. First and foremost are killer styles. If those are not a priority (and everything that Lionstracs have done so far show it was not theirs), then I repeat, all you have is a Neko or Muse Receptor with half-a$$ed styles.

Let's face it, if all anyone needed was a GIGA piano and B4 (all anyone seems to talk about glowingly), they could use their current arranger and a laptop, at a fraction of the price of an MS..... No, there has to be more. Now that most professionals already have a home or studio computer rig capable of VST and GIGA, what would make us pay for something that we already have? The ability to use it at the gig? A laptop can do that.

No, Domenik wants to supply an all-in-one solution. But for it to be all-in-one, it not only has to SOUND better than our current arrangers, it also has to be as easy to operate, and have AT LEAST as good, if not better, styles.

You will always sell to a few visionaries who realize that, with a LOT of work, they can sound a lot better than they have before. But to crack the mass market and achieve corporate stability (let's face it, if Domenik doesn't sell enough of these things, kiss goodbye to constant updates), you are going to have to do what Korg, Roland, Ketron and Yamaha have done....... DO THE HARD WORK FOR US, then sell it.....

Ketron are a very good case in point...... not, perhaps the most cutting edge sounds, but the styles..... aaahhhhhh! Well balanced and composed styles, EXACTLY what their customers want. MS seems to have exactly the opposite priority.

Next time, Domenik, before you tell US that your keyboard is the best on the planet, have a listen to what WE are telling you........