Several years ago, I started using a 2nd keyboard either on my right hand or on a rack over my Solton (ssometimes both). The few questions I got about the automatic function went awasy, since I use both keys on every tune, so it's obvious that at least part of the music is being played in real time.


Works for me.

Russ

Some more arranger ignorance from Yamaha employees. I wont bore you with all of it. Some guy who has some experience of keyboards wants to know which is better for him , the XS or the T2 . He gets all the usual BS from Yamaha about the T2 being only suited to the OMB, wedding playing home pop star wanna be (i'm condensing the theme of Yamaha's reply ) and pro gigging musicians using the motif ES for full musical production Blah Blah Blah.

Heres my response (which might also bore you !)

"Re: Compare T1, T2 and XS....Help Yamaha, Please!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...which keyboard would I turn on?... the Tyros 2. Why? because it is loaded with 400 Styles (coherently put together backing specifically designed to perform those music genres) - I would sound great immediately... and could do the project quickly and efficiently. Plus my chops on Broadway style music is sadly lacking... not my forte at all.

Now say I need to put together a professional sounding piece of music - a commissioned project - and say the job required an original R&B Song - which one would I turn on... the Motif XS. Why? because for me R&B songs are a comfort zone, I don't need to rely as much on the source material. I most likely would write the whole thing myself. (Been here, done this and actually have the official R&B Song Writer T-shirt"

My response


"Dash all i can say is that the differences that are being overplayed between the T2 and XS is simply the depth of the editing which 90% of the market that purcahsed the MOTIF ES DONT USE. EG if you chose a guitar patch to edit i asume its because you wanted the final sound to sound similar to a guitar but just a personalised one ! The T2 can take that guitar sound and completely tear it apart if you want to but you sound like a sensible musician and not a sound engineer geek ! I suspect most musicians dont do any indepth sound editing whatsoever on their motif ES or will on the xs but BOTH I AM SURE WILL BE BOUGHT NEVER THE LESS.Why ????? Simply because of the marketing. The ES XS is cool right because pro's use them an you never see a T2 or any arranger on TV right ?

In the examples given above the T2 would be more suitable than the XS IN probably BOTH CASES. The T2 has the most realistic sounds within it than any other yamaha instrument including the mo ES ( havent heard the XS in person) but i suspect that too as it does not have SA voices .

If i were a song writer i want a tool that can inspire and help me get the job done quickly and efficiently. For example lets say i have been commissioned to do an R&B song. Do i want to spend hours editing the instrumet to get great brass sounds, brass stabs , falls, scorching rhythm guitars , organs, kickass drums,searing synthleads or do i actually want to write a song in the quickest time using the most efficient tool ?

The T2 has them all there done and sounding fantastic and if you want to personalise the sound you can dig into the sound synthesis. Yes its true you cant take horns and turn them into weird sounding guitars but why the hell would you ? ???

Most R&B music is composed of a good hook bass line and a great percusion/drum pattern. You can use the preset patterns on the T2 simply as a scratch pad and can instantly change th patterns and chords at any time. Why is this better than a traditional workstion and in this example better for a song writer ? Because you can experiment with musical ideas quickly and easily without extensive programming and lost time fiddling with setups, effects etc. Once you have decided upon your finished idea you can the use the sequencer in linear form. i mean programme each track playing the bass live using your own individual playing skills (not the preprogramed patterns of the arranger) your own drumming patterns , in short play everything yourself . The T2 helps you sort out the ideas and chord structure quickly so that you dont spend hours programming those ideas from scratch , rubbing them out and stating again !!! Is this a great idea for a song writer ??? yessssssssss !!!!!

Watch the XS demo's by athan and Bert.Their demonstrations focus almost entirely on this feature alone !!!! Why ?? Because finally yamaha have realised that ease of song writing and playing is MORE IMPORTANT than sound editing and they are very much aware that the market is looking hard at the T2 as an alternative workstation /song writing tool. You have heard the T2 demos and thats a compelling reason why.

Its an amazing creativve song writing and produton tool. Its a shame that you dont have one to hand to actually play and tinker with. You would see that much of what you hear from people who dont use an arranger in this way is inaccurate not deliberately so but because they simply have not experimented with an aranger as a song writing tool,

Heres my genuine advise after reading all the nonsense marketing BS both here on the forum and in the literature.If you are into making your own sounds extensively, exprimenting with filters, oscillators, LFOs and effects, making sounds that have never been heard before and might not never be used in a performance etc just because its interesting and fun to you then the motif series truly excells in this and the manual is writen for tekkies like you. If you are into playing, writing and producing professional sounding music easily with world class professionally edited sounds at your finger tips then you will not struggle at all with the T2 and you will be surprised at the music it inspires you to write.

best of luck mate ! "

[This message has been edited by spalding4 (edited 01-26-2007).]

My last post on the subject i promise !

another musician who uses the motif ES and would like to know if the T2 has similar features ...

"I must say, I'd never use the T2 on a rock band stage.

1. 61 key...that alone kills it if any piano is required. Even when I'm just doing right hand fills, shifting my brain to playing on a 61 or 76 keyboard just doesn't work. I can't explain it. Plus the image of playing a midget piano just doesn't look good.

2. If it doesn't have something like Performance mode...kills it there too. I'm surprised how much I use Perf mode. Always thought I'd just use favorite Voices, but as I got more experienced Voice mode was just too limited. I learned from listening to Rudess that keyboardists run the whole show. Perf mode is essential. Now, he's one of the few out there that actually needs the full synth/voice programming as well, but as has been stated, I think that's less than 10% of performers.

3. Cool factor. There's always somebody between sets (sound guys, venue employees, other bands) like "duuude, MOTIF, sweet bro, wanna smoke?" It's sort of like the effect of a real B3 on stage. It just gets the people who know what it is excited, they think they're watching or working with an insider, a pro, which in turn feeds the artist. And yep, this is just a result of good marketing...well done Yamaha.

All that said, as Bad M states, the T2 is more expensive than even the soon to be XS so it's not like Yamaha is fooling the masses by getting them to buy Motifs...would be in their interest to fool them the other way around if the only factor was margin/unit."

My response

"The T2 only has 61 keys thats true. It might not look cool to you but its sounds waaaaayyyyyyyyy cool !

Finally does it have Performance mode ???

Certainly it does !!!! But Yamaha call it Registration Memory Banks where you can save your keyboard set ups, layered sounds, dsp effects , transposition keys and a host of other parameters at the touch of a button ! Going from memory there are 8 dedicated Registration buttons each able to hold 8 separate combinations of setups. thats 64 different performance setups. at your fingertips. (oh and buy the way the whole concept of performance mode was borowed from the arranger family of keyboards.My yamaha PSR 8000 had registration banks as long as 8 years ago, its nice to see the big boys like the motif catch up and sell this as a new technique!)

Listen I have preached enough. This is he kind of info that Yamaha ought to be giving to musicians and contrary to popular belief I dont work for Yamaha "

I am done

Spalding keep in mind the difference between the Performance mode on the synths, and the registration set ups on arrangers.

Synths have (16) part Peformaces at your finger tips. With the XS for example all 16 parts will be available at a button push where as with the arranger you'll have to go though banks as there is only a few slots within each bank.

There are work-arounds on arrangers though. You could create a seq template really on the PSR's and set up 16 part performances that way. You can save multiple seq temps to the song memory, and those parts will be available on demand as you can use the softkeys to access each part on the fly.

Thanks Squeak. You are right. I was just trying to illustrate that what workstation musiicians have , aranger musicians have similar but not necessarily exact but i take your point !

You also tend to find that workstations have far better master keyboard capabilities than arrangers, something that is of great concern to gigging pros (remember, most of them are using them with full bands, so there is less need to have an automatic rhythm section).

Most of them will have at least a couple of keyboards, and a rack of outboard synths and samplers, and keeping that all under control is important. Don't get me wrong, the top-of-the-line arrangers are OK in this department, but just OK.... none of them approach the flexibility of a Kurzweil or MotifXS

There IS an important difference between arranger and workstation, but the trouble is far too many people choose the workstation when the REALLY need an arranger. It is time that the arranger divisions of each corporation do a better job of addressing the needs of players that need arranger AND workstation capabilities in one keyboard, and I believe that adding workstation capabilities to an arranger (master keyboard functions, in-depth editing) would be FAR easier than adding arranger capabilities to a workstation.....

Wow ...... and you want to impress THESE people?