Hi Bill
Arranger keyboards developed from electronic organs, and are essentially single manual versions of these.
Workstations developed from synthesisers and therefore require more user input
However with modern technology the lines between the 2 are now blurring
You can find details of the instruments you mention from the links below.

http://www.organfax.co.uk/instruments/wersi/pegasus.html http://achamilton.co.uk/Technics/KN6000.htm

Hope this helps

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 01-13-2007).]

thanks again abacus for helping me understand more, i take it that a keyboard that you can manualy set up backing tracks/rhythm's and store them is a aranger keyboard and it is not that diffrent to a workstation.
bill

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/professional-keyboards/buying-guide.php

.
>>>...i take it that a keyboard that you can manualy set up backing tracks/rhythm's...>>>

Nope. An arranger keyboard responds to the player's instructions in real time. The backing tracks do not exist until you start playing the song and tell the keyboard what to do.

.

Bill ... It's great to see another KN6000 player here ... and with an interest in golf !!! ... I'm not familiar with the pegasus, but the KN6 is a great arranger keyboard ...

Would you share some of your kb work with us?
t.




[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 01-13-2007).]

Golf, did you say golf? It's 72 degrees right now. I have to try to beat the rain.
Adios!
DonM

This is part of a discussion on the Motifator forum about the motif XS and the Tyros 2. Many people are surprised that the T2 with its SA voices sounds better than even the flagship XS and want to know the difference between the two instruments as they are seriously considering the T2 as an alternative.....But the qoutes below are shocking !

This typifies the ignorance and misinformation being given and discussed in keyboard forums (and no doubt shop floors)but you will be shocked by the source of the following qoutes

"Tyros 2 is a completely different product aimed at a different market. For one thing - it is NOT programmable to anywhere near the extent the XS is. If you buy a T2 expecting to make your own brilliant sounds - you're buying the wrong instrument.

The sounds on the T2 are editable - to a small degree. You use "offsets" to "adjust" aspects of the individual voices - but it's not the same as the XS where you can start from scratch to build sounds. You can't change the waveform of a T2 guitar sound to a different guitar for example, or change the filter type, or...man, I could go on for paragraphs.

The T2 is ideal for one-man band musicians, entertainers, people who like auto-accompaniment keyboards. The XS is a studio tool designed to allow you to create sounds as well as heavily modify them a million different ways and store the results. As well as being a live gigging keyboard for people in a band.

Please folks - wait for some better demos for the XS. And after that, please go see it "in person". Audio demos don't begin to tell the whole story. Nor does someone else's evaluation"

Thats not quite true about the editability of the sounds of the T2. I am sure you owners on here know fullwell the depth of editing that can be done with the software supplied with your T2 Buts lets allow that for now . Read on .....

"This is very true. But here are some differences between the XS and the Tyros 2.

On the Tryos 2 the styles are bound together. That is the Funk style is has a Funk Drum, Bass , Guitar and keyboard part in it. It is not so easy to combine different phrases from different styles."

And this comment


"On the XS , it is easy to combine different parts from different styles to make completely different kinds of music.

Also you have more control over the individual parts because you can record them individual one a time. "

My response

"I dont think thats true. You can mix styles and intruments and create your own original patterns or linear tracks just like a workstation. To say that if you use a funk style you are tied in to using the funk drum kit or bass sound is totally incorrect. You can mix and match to your hearts content. These functions were available even on arrangers like the yamaha psr8000 which was the flag ship arranger 8 years ago !

Unless musicians actually play these instruments and dig into their functions they will continue to believe that they are only suited to people jamming along at home with themselves.These instruments in very many cases are far more appropriate to the song writer and serious musician than many of the workstations that have been bought and lead to frustatrating the creative juices that the instruimenmt sound inspired in the first place !

No disrespect intended Yamaha US"

The qoutes are shocking because they originate from TWO OF YAMAHA'S OWN STAFF IN THE USA WHO ARE INVOLVED IN EITHER PRODUCT DEVELOPEMENT/SALES OR MARKETING !!!!

If they are ignorant about the instruments capabilities that come from their own company , what hope does the buying public have in order to buy an instrument that is actually most suited to their needs as opposed to " the most advanced workstation"

I was flabbergasted.

My last word on the subject was

"I just saw the demo of Bert on Google. My goodness.He may as well have just demoed a T2 !!!!! He demonstrates the creativity that an arranger inspires and the immediate ability to record play and edit what you have played and he then says " that is what makes this such a great workstation" .

Ok I'm done preaching Enjoy your music however you make it and whatever you make it on ! "

Watch the Demo and see what i mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LaWsCwMo3U&mode=related&search=

Nice Demo...it held my attention throughout..
I think the gaps between arranger and synth workstation are finally get closer year by year with new model releases for sure....
if they can simplify the OS for the beginner thru the pro levels so that everyone can understand and operate the unit easily we will make strides beyond our wildest dreams for sure....I for one cant wait!!!

Thanks for sharing

if they can simplify the OS for the beginner thru the pro levels so that everyone can understand and operate the unit easily we will make strides beyond our wildest dreams for sure....I for one cant wait!!!
---------------------------------------------

See that's where it gets tricky Dnj There are many arranger players who don't really dig into the synth editing on their units. The arrangers strive for that "out of the box" experience. The full synth is like a "Slutty Music Nympho" She's gonna give you some out the box bang, but she wants, she needs, to be tweeked. She's beggin for it

I think the market is already there. There should be more "in between keyboards".. More keyboards like the MM-6 for example. A basic synth that will get you into the concpet of what a full blown synth workstation will do.

It will be a lot of work to market a full synth to the beginner and pro. That manual alone would be as thick as a NYC phone book! This is the perfect spot for in between synths too. Arrangers can actually funtion as an in between (somewhat.. but, there are many players who don't use the synth function on their arrangers).

I get a lot of emails about editing sounds, and what does this "term" mean and what is it's function. These are some basic terms and fuctions that are on the PSR-1500/300, Korg PA's, and the Roland arrangers. Users of these arrangers just need to open their manual, read what the terms are, try to better understand what they do, and most importantly "tweek the sounds". Hands on is the best way to learn.

Squeak

I have never dismissed arranger keyboards,I did my first ever good and inspired composition with a bottom of the range Yamaha Portatone ,a tube amp for guitar,and my trusty guitar.
I have ALWAYS liked arrangers,because they ,infact,are a lot more instructional (for any musician,beginner or advanced) that a synth.
But after a few years,I have started to believe the crap about 'ah,if you have an arranger you are cheating' or something like that.
After 4 years of making music entirely on Cubase on my own,while studying harmony,I now HATE Cubase,and appreciate a lot more Band in a Box,One Man Band,and a Yamaha QY700 arranger sequencer that I just bought this week second hand.

Ok,even when I had no arranger keyboard,I had my Kurzweil K-2000 or my Roland XP-80,and I liked to tweak synth sounds,but let me tell you,I have always liked more to press a button and listen to a 'style'...that's music,not just the behavioural pattern of one sound.
Nowadays,I am not interested at all in tweaking sounds too much,it's too time consuming,I prefer to pick a sound and it's either there or I'll pick another that gets closer,and start thinking of the music rather than Envelope/ASDR settings etc...life is too short for that.
So I just wanted to say...arranger keyboards are GREAT instruments,now I just enjoy even listening to a style,listen to how all the parts interrelate,and learn from it,and that's even before I start playing something on top.

They are great springing boards for creative input,especially for people like me that tend to compose on their own.
The only thing I moan about arrangers ,is the somewhat excessive cost. I just wrote to Roland (I mention Roland,but also the same applies to Yamaha,Ketron,GEM,etc) to ask them if they would ever make a desktop version of the E-50 or even the E-80,that would allow one to spend about � 500 for an excellent desktop arranger (well,the E-50 can be bought for about � 600), rack up a quality controller keyboard of one's own preference, with semi-weighted or weighted keys (the latter can be found even for � 220 from Fatar...far superior than the keys on even the best arranger keyboards,too plasticky for what they cost),and have a top-notch setup for about than � 800-1000.
Yet,an E-80 costs about � 1500-1800 new,or more (don't know the exact price).

That's the only true thing about what the moaners say about Arranger keyboards...all the rest about 'cheating' or 'no professionalism' is unfounded.

I don't see why working with an Arranger is less 'pro' that someone killing himself while trying to write all his music from scratch... it's great to press a button and to listen to the drums and a bassline and start building around it. That's still making music! The only difference are that the person is getting the rhythm section from the arranger rather than from real people...so?
The skill of a musician does not depend on what he uses...an arranger is an instrument. I know I am talking a bit to myself here,I was just saying what other people say here,too

[This message has been edited by santantoni (edited 01-24-2007).]

[This message has been edited by santantoni (edited 01-24-2007).]