I believe someone on this board said that the organ sounds on the PSR2000 are weak. What is your opinion on this? Should my next purchase be an organ sound module (like the new Roland VK8M), a computer running Native Instruments B4, or a Yamaha PSR2000/PSR2100 (and get an arranger with great organ soounds)? ( I now own a PSR550 and Roland EM20)
Starkeeper

I find that the organ sounds on the PSR550 are too low, too bassy, in the middle C area, but are good played 8va. If I had a drawbar organ I would push in the left most drawbar .
Starkeeper

I'm not a real good judge of organ sounds, but after owning the 500, 550, 740 and 2000 the sounds coming from the 2000 are far superior. If I were in your shoes, I would head to the nearest music store and sit down at the keyboard and try them out. If it sounds good to you, buy the keyboard. If it doesn't sound good to you, keep shoping until you find something that sounds better. You surely wouldn't buy a car before taking a test drive--it's the same deal with keyboards.

Good Luck,

Gary

I have to agree with the organ sounds on the 550... They do leave much to be desired. They're really bad in the lower register. However what I do like is the ability to turn the DSP(fast) on with one button.. I think using DSP (fast) makes them sound a little better...... I've played with the drawbars on the 740 (and had them on my old MZ-2000), and I thought they were pretty good on the 740. I can only assume they sound better on the 2000.

Squeak

Thank you all for responding. Will have a listen to the PSR2000.
Starkeeper

I for one think the organs are a little weak on the PSR 2000. I do notice a big improvement when I turn off the internal speakers and use my stereo speakers instead. The improvement is not so much in the speakers but in not sitting on top of the sounds. I've had several organs over the years and I must say that external speakers are the way to go with organ sounds IMHO!!!!

Personally.........I like the 2000's organ sounds. I especially like layering 2 together, sometimes changing the panning. The DSP and variation adds a lot too!

I have to agree with "Mainer" , they are "ok" but weak.
Every "Organ" sound can be "tweaked" to sound the same.
Pre-Set`s are ok but after a while I find myself looking for that "combination" that just is`nt there.
But it sure is lighter and smaller than a "B-3".
Now if "Yamaha" could take a real B-3 sample, then that would be "A-OK"
But that will never happen.
Next best thing IMO would be a "Wersi"
jedi

I consider the Organs on the PSR 2000 extraordinarily good. I have had comments from many people that they really liked the Organ sounds I was playing through my PSR 2000. And layering the Organs you can come up with some terrific Organ sounds. Jedi, as for a B-3 patch, if you have the PSR 2000, try the XG Perc Organ. If you want I can send you a Midi file that features the Xg Perc Organ and I bet you would be surprised at the sound emanating from the speakers. It sounds pretty close to a real B-3 if you ask me. And remember the midi file playing through a Keyboard is only as good as the sound engine on that Keyboard. In other words, that same sound on the midi file played through the PSR 2000 can essentially be reproduced by a Keyboardist playing the PSR 2000.

Also I have played the Tyros and it has some very good Organ sounds too. I have heard the KN7000 is the King when it comes to Organ sounds but I cannot verify that because I have not played one.

Best regards,
Mike

I cannot remember exactly how the organs sounded in the 2000 anymore but I remember at the time thinking that they were pretty close to the ones in the Motif workstation that I replaced it with. I don't like the ones in the Motif very much vs their counterparts on the PA80. Organ is a very big staple sound for me and I use it a lot when I play live with my guitar player. I need a good organ sound, and this is one of a few reasons I'd be reluctant to part with my PA80 if I get the 2100 or I get the Tyros, unless the organ sounds are vastly improved. Squeak, I thought the organ sounds were much better on the MZ than the 740. In fact, other than that velo sax and the one excellent overdrive guitar patch that I like on the MZ, the appeal for me was the organs. I rmemeber demoing it by playing KarnEvil 9 from ELP over and over on it. That's what sold me on the MZ..lol

AJ

My only problem is with the factory set volumes when calling up one of the organs on the fly. Most seem way too loud and overpower the style. However, when tweaked correctly into a registration, no problem.
Eddie

They are not going to win any awards!

Like betweengigs (Eddie) says, they are way loud and overpowering on a lot of the OTS. I turn them down to about 80 volume as a lead voice!

And they sound mushy (crappy-ish), unless played an octave higher.

There's my professional opinion!



Tom G.

Bluezplayer,
I have to agree in that the organ sounds were good on the MZ, and yes that Velo sax was really impressive.. I wonder if Casio has any plans for say an MZ-3000 or something along those lines

Hmm. I haven't heard of anything from them but they would have to implement more than a few improvements before I went that route again squeak. The MZ had some cool stuff going on but it wasn't a board I'd ever bring to a show. It was in some ways a nice addition to the home studio though. The biggest problem is that they made it and kind of orphaned it after that.. There were several things that could have ben upgraded with just a new OS release If Casio had chosen to do so, but as usual they don't seem willing to take the needed steps to become a serious contender in the pro / semi pro market. Well, today ( or possibly tomorrow ) I'll be going to check out the Tyros again and I'll be listening closely to the organ sounds. The PSR2000 is on display also so I'll give that a close listen again too.

AJ

Thanks all for replying. I appreciate your opinions.
Bluezplayer, when you try the PSR2000, please post your impressions. You are correct about the volume being too loud on organ sounds.
Starkeeper

Hi Mike,
Yes, I do have a "Y2K"
I`ll give it a try and thanks for the "tip"
But I have played around with that KB for over a year now and I still find myself "wanting" an Organ Sound that isn`t there.
If tried "tweeking" and all the other adjustments , and still after a while it seem`s like it`s missing something.
But for the price it still has the "Best Organ Sounds" I`ve heard in an electronic KB . IMO--for the price .
You can get better , but not for under a "K"
jedi

I agree with Jedi, the Y2k organ sounds are good and very editable, but if you're looking for a real B3 sound, sooner or later you're gonna start looking again. I've had Voce and Roland organs in the past and essentially all of the top mfgrs. have very good B3 samples. I am originally an organ guy and will probably start looking for a CX3 or VK8 soon. But don't discount the organ sounds on the Y2k if you are looking for an arranger keyboard. I love my 2k; sold a Korg iX300 to get it. By the way, most of the Korg "AI" organ sounds were weak too. My finalword is, as always, IF YOU WANT A DRAWBAR ORGAN SOUND, YOU NEED A DRAWBAR ORGAN. Good luck

------------------
Cass Pawlowski
Detroit, MI
PSR2000, Roland SC88
Cakewalk, Sonar, Power Tracks, BIAB

Starkeeper,

The 2000 organ sounds are pretty much as I had remembered them to be. Don't get me wrong. They certainly aren't bad sounds, but for me they are not particularly inspiring either. I didn't spend enough time on the Tyros to know for sure, and the Tyros did sound a little better overall than the 2000, but there were no organs on it in my brief time with it today that really moved me either. Since it is completely out of the realm of reality that I'd bring a real B3 to every show with me, I'll gladly use combi or layered voices that I made up for the PA80( aka performances ) over anything I heard today. Perhaps with some editing I'd get a better organ sound on the Yamaha's, but I've tried quite extensively on the Motif to little avail, and what I heard today doesn't make me confident that the Yamaha arrangers will do a lot better. Now the saxes and Flutes from the Tyros turned more than one head when I played them through a store sound system. The salesman and a couple of customers in the reed / horn dept couldn't believe what they were hearing. When I played those sounds on the 2000 and even the 1000 it got some attention too. My guitar player was there and he thought a couple of the Tyros guitar sounds were very good. He did not evaluate the 2000's quite as highly, but overall he was impressed with some of the guitars on both ( he also thinks the ones on the PA80 are very good )

I don't know though. I'm still not convinced I want to spend $2,500+ on a board that won't allow sampling, won't let me add my Yamaha plug-in boards, is limited in voice patch editing capability vs my other two boards, and will still likely serve as the second instrument in my live setup ( the PA80 is going nowhere ). I would spend Tyros bucks and still absolutely need my Motif ( not that I want to part with it anyway ). Perhaps the 2000 or 2100 is the better answer for me, with remaining funds going to upgrade my sound system and perhaps purchase a TC helicon vocalizer unit, or maybe another look at the 9000 pro is in order for me. I'm even open to looking at the G1000 again at this point. I've never tried the ketron stuff either, so until I do, I won't totally rule them out despite any comments I've seen / heard positive or negative.


AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-21-2003).]

Jedi, if you want to get some better organ sounds from your 2000, use XGworks with my 740/2000 updates (which you can find on Jorgen's Unofficial PSR website at home7.inet.tele.dk/js/musik/740pages . You'll need a computer (I use a cheap laptop for portability) but you'll get access to all 5 DSPs and the ability to layer up to 16 organ voices on to one voice. That way you can make the 2000 sound like anything you care to name. Works wonders on my 740 as well.

Bryan

Hi Pilot,
Thanks , but I have a "Mac" and I don`t think XG-Works will "work" with a "Mac"
But I do thank you ,
Too bad my computer "hates software" , every time I have tried to load midi software in the past , many "crashes and conflics" so now I don`t even have a "midi-interface"
I keep telling myself "buy a "PC" but if you ever owned a "Mac" you`ll know way I still have a "Mac" ----O-- well--- Maybe 2 computers like you suggested a "PC" laptop and a "Mac" "Yikes"----talk about confussing!!! hahahaha
Thanks again,
jedi

XG works does do a very good job of allowing the user to edit patch parameters, and it is invaluable to me as the host software for the editors of my Motif Plug ins. The drawback I had with the 740 ( and I think this was the case with the 2k as well ) is that the patch edits I was able to configure with XG works could not be saved as an internal sound. Not good for live works unless I was to bring a laptop with me ( and that would be more work than I'd want to do in a live situation ). The edits could however be saved inside of a midi file.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-24-2003).]

The "loudness" of the PSR-2000 organ styles originates, I believe, because Yamaha automatically turns off Touch response when you select an organ voice. They rightly assume that organ keyboards are not touch sensitive, however, they ignore the fact that organists have toes and control the volume with their foot! I also agree that the impact is magnified enormously by layering the sounds. Sam Safran has created some great sustained organ styles that sound terrific on the PSR-2000. You can get those styles from my site as well as several other places on the net. Here is a direct link: http://psrtutorial.com/Files/F_Styles/S_User/s_user.html

This is the same page that has Gary Diamond's "Gig Disks". Scroll to the bottom of the page for Sam's organ styles.

[This message has been edited by Joe Waters (edited 03-25-2003).]

It's worse than that, Joe. Touch reponse is still there because it applies to the actual keyboard. The problem is that the velocity of the panel organs is fixed in the synth so that not only does touch response not work, you can't alter the velocity through midi either. Makes my blood boil. I've complained bitterly to Yamaha about this but they come up with lame excuses about wanting the organs to be like "real" organs. The XG organs have touch response however, so they're the ones I always use, suitably layered.

Bryan

Starkeeper---to me what was really weak on the psr2000 was the leslie effect, which to me is a very big deal. It really does depend on what you want to hear when you think "organ"---some are thinking "church" and some Jimmy Smith-----I was thinking Booker T,and it just ain't there on the Yamaha.

A.J.---KarnEvil 9!---now that's an organ sound! Any fans of Goldy McJohn around???? He got those great grinding organ sounds for Steppenwolf. I know that I'm supposed to mellow out in my old age but it ain't happened yet!
Bill

Bill E,
I am interested in Hammond B3 with Leslie sounds not "church" pipe organ sounds. Actually I think the pipe organ sounds are adequate. The sounds of Jimmy Smith, Booker T, Santana, Deep Purple. I haven't mellowed yet either. I still like rock-n-roll after all these years.
I use to own a Hammond L100 with a Leslie 122. Man that was sweet. I still miss the feeling you get when the Leslie spins up. Sigh!
Starkeeper

BillE

KarnEvil9 sure is quite the organ sound, and Keith Emerson is quite the player. I have nothing in the arsenal that meets that sound exactly but the PA80 has sounds that are a lot closer than the Yamaha stuff, and are more than adequate for live work. In spite of that, I'm getting another 2000 as a backup / complement rig to the PA80 for live venues. The flutes and some other sounds are very good on the 2000. Good enough that when I played the flute sound, it fooled a store full of customers.

Still, I'm looking at different software synths like the B4 ..etc and maybe I can tailor a sound that comes closer and sample it onto my Motif, but if not, at least I'd have it for studio work. The current organs on the Motif are woefully inadequate for those old rock organ sounds, but that is one of the only weak points of the board. It does an almost perfect vintage Rhodes, the basses are thick, the ac pianos excellent, and the sax / horn sounds with the VL plug in using a breathe controller are very nice. It does some killer synth sounds with the AN plug in too. While I can't replicate all of those sounds on the 2k, there are quite a few that sound similar to their counterparts from the Motif, so the 2k shall be mine again.

AJ

Starkeeper--nice list, Greg Rolie for Santana was smokin'! I heard "Evil Ways" on the oldies station the other day and was once again caught up in that great sound. And Jon Lord for Deep Purple was another great tone,one of the most percussive hammond sounds on record. I do not believe that you will find those sounds on any of todays' arrangers, but I would not go back to lugging around a B3 and leslie either! ( I played guitar but it took the whole band to move that gear around).You will probably have to buy a dedicated tone module to find satisfaction,but if I had the chops I would do it in a heartbeat. Good luck