I had not been to my "local" music store for quite some time, so I was in for quite a surprise when I went there and saw both a PA1x ( speaker version ) and a G70 on display. No T2 though, and no 3000. The highest end Yamaha entry was the 1500.

First I went to the PA1x, since I had thought about the possibility of replacing my PA80 with one. There are some new features and perhaps a few new sounds and styles, but a majority of the soundset and styles sound similar enough that it didn't take me long to realize that there isn't really enough of a difference that would make me spend that kind of money. Just like my PA, I still like the styles, perhaps on the PA1x they are even a bit more "alive", though I still find fills that don't quite match. I still like the same sounds ( organs, synths, drums, strings ), see some improvement in the Pianos and perhaps a little in the sax sounds, still dislike the guitars and electric pianos. All in all a great arranger to be sure, but not quite enough there to make me upgrade. Perhaps the VH is the biggest improvement, but I don't use very much vocal harmony in the first place.

Then I tried the G70 ( version 2 ). I thought the styles were ok but a bit weak overall, and while I really liked some of the soundset ( guitars were much better to me than on the PA ), I was unimpressed with major portions of it as well ( ac pianos, lead and poly synths to name a few ). It's a beautiful looking board btw, and maybe with some tweaking I could have gotten much more out of it, but first impressions do mean a lot to me.

Above it sat a PSR1500. There was also an older 2000 nearby. I had a couple of 2ks in the past, so I know that board very well. I walked away from the 1500 somewhat surprised to say the least, considering it's supposed to be a lower end version of a 3k. Perhaps I was imagining it, but the keys felt better on the 1500 than on the 2k. Maybe it's because the 2k was used and the keys were worn a bit. I still don't really like the way the 1500 feels, but.... I liked the overall soundset ( panel voices ) a lot better than on either the PA1x or the G70, and surprisingly enough, the styles sounded more alive and musical than I had remembered them sounding on older Yamaha arrangers, and I thought they compared favorably to those on the PA1x, perhaps not quite as "alive", but with much better transition from variation to fill.

It was a good experience for me, because if and when I do look for a new arranger, I've now eliminated all things not Yamaha from consideration except Ketron, which I hope to see somewhere in the near future. Still, if I decide to go the new arranger route, the T2 is looking like by far the best choice for me at this point.

I don't want to start a my board is better than your board fight here, because I'm sure that some folks don't have the same ears I have or the same wants in an arranger, and that's ok too. For me, the whole point is that I was very pleasantly surprised to find all of these boards on display in my local store, and I finaly got to A / B a few different types at the same time. My local store is a very good store btw, but it has never been known for having a big selection of arrangers, so I was delighted at having this opportunity.

AJ

Hello AJ
If you ever get the chance, try coming to one of the week long Keyboard Festivals in the UK, as you will be able to try all the boards, listen to professional demonstrators, teach ins (Where the professionals show you how to get the best from your keyboard) and of course 1st class concerts at night, (Don’t forget the late Bar sessions as well) or you can just go dancing after the concerts.
Another point I would like to mention is that Wersi are expanding there dealership over in the USA, so keep an eye out and have a look at these as well. Yes I know they are expensive, but you don’t have to change the board to upgrade, and as they can use samples from other manufactures, as well as VST’s this means that you can customise them to be what you want.
If you do decide to come over to the UK for the Festivals, you will also be able to meet some of the UK synth zone members, as well as have a great time.
Enjoy whatever you play.

Bill
http://www.keyboard-cavalcade.co.uk/index.htm Don’t forget to check the Stop Press
http://www.organfax.co.uk/holidays.html

You cannot compare Yamaha and Wersi. The philosophies, marketing, pricing are worlds apart. I've owned Wersi in the past they are overpriced, lag behind technically, and the support network atrocious.



------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

I'm not sure about the situation with Wersi, or how good they are, but because it's presence is pretty much non existent in this area, I wouldn't consider it anyway.

After playing the 1500 yesterday, along with the original Tyros, I can say that this is a rare case where I'll consider getting a board sight unseen. I'm grateful for having had the chance to demo the G70 and PA1x yesterday, as my choices are now much easier. Even if our local store doesn't display the T2, because they showed me the other 2 and because Alto is just a great store overall, I'll get my T2 there.

AJ

AJ......T2 is wise choice ....
I know your into the Blues and the T2 WILL NOT DISSAPOINT to inspire a player save your pennies, it will be Well worth it down the road to own & play a T2 & your personal musical satisfaction with go to new levels of creativity without question......
along with great support......
then just Record it on the on-board hard drive & post your songs for us here
I have no regrets in switching from my former KB's....no need to ever look back, I was a non believer in the past & I've tried the Rest now "FOR ME", I have the BEST

Good Luck

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-10-2006).]

I totally agree with you about Wersi support in the past, it “has” been atrocious; however with the new team in place, things are now coming together. (Most problems have now been sorted)
As for lagging behind technically, then all I can say is that if you look at the instruments they have produced since the company started in 1969, they have usually been 1 - 2 Generations in advance of others. (I’m referring to the technology used in the instruments)
Enjoy whatever you play.

Bill

Donny,

I'm definitely sold on it already after realizing I actually preferred what I was hearing on the PSR1500 to either the PA1x or G70. I know the T2 is a step up from the PSR series. Even though I'm fortunate enough to have the money now, I'll probably wait a bit, as I also will have a nice check coming in either this summer or fall as part of a contract settlement.

This will easily cover a T2 and a new live sound system, with plenty left over for some more softsynths and / or sample sets, along with some improvements for the house as well. Only an amazing offering from Ketron could possibly change my mind now, but in the very likely event that I haven't seen one by the time the money comes in, I'll gladly order a T2 sight unseen, and with no regrets.

I'm looking forward to getting the new Oberheim emulation softsynth as well. I dl'd the demo and it comes as close as anything I've ever heard, and the OB series has always been one of my favorites.

I guess if there is any downside at all, I'll probably want to move one of my current kb's out of the music room here. I was considering the possibility of selling one off, but instead I'll probably turn over my PA80 ( or maybe the MZ ) to the grandkids, as they both want to learn to play keys. As they live with me, it'll never be too far away anyway.

AJ

Hello AJ
If you are coming into extra readies, then spend a bit by coming to one of the UK Festivals, and be surrounded by 100s (Average 1500 at the week long festivals) of like minded people. (Music is why they are there)
Enjoy what you play.

Bill

Bill,

Sounds like a great time. Someday perhaps. Not in the near future though. Money is one thing. Time and physical endurance for long trips is another. Too many places I want and still have yet to see here in the "New World" before I go across the "pond".

AJ

Here is my viewpoint on the Tyros 2.
I still had 4 of the technics top end boards. I bought a Yam PSR9000 and could never get my head into the operating system as a result of constantly playing the technics. I finally gave it up and it still just sits.
I bought the Tyros 2 sight unseen and got one of the very first delivered in the USA the 1st of November last year. I decided not to play the technics boards while trying to learn the tyros OS. I never had any problem then and the tyros is the only board that has been turned on in here since it got here.
I just sold three of the technics top end keyboards and have become a total Yamaha convert.
That's the view from my place,
I am sure you will really enjoy the tyros 2 as you get further into it.
Best regards,
Bebop

You must not have heard, seen, or played the Abacus, Ikarus, Scala, or newer Wersi products in person or I'd assume you'd not say they are technically inferior to Yamaha.

You're right about Yamaha's philosophy being different as Yamaha's approach is to sell a keyboard to you then sell you a new product a few years later making the older one obsolete. Wersi's philosophy is to sell a product that is great then update its software making it better each time. The user also has the ability to utilize third party software and samples to structure the keyboard any way they'd like. I'd hardly call that philosophy backward thinking.

Yes, Wersi's price is more expensive but if you figure out how much its going to cost you when you replace another manufacturers keyboard every couple of years when they make them obsolete then you'll realize the Wersi isn't that expensive.

I've owned the best arrangers and keyboards Yamaha has to offer and currently own the Wersi Abacus Duo Pro, Mediastation X-76, Korg Triton Pro, Roland XV5080, and many other synths and samplers. I can compare these instruments side by side so for me its not hard to hear and see which ones compare well to one another. At this time I have no intention of getting rid of my current setup to buy any new Yamaha, Korg, or Roland products. I had considered adding the Korg Oasys to my setup but after trying it out it lacked the features my Wersi Abacus has and cost a bundle although the Karma synthesizer features were quite nice.

I owned a the Wersi Delta 500 and their keyboard, I feel they were years ahead in technology and the same amout of years behind in user friendly and the weight of their keyboard.

John C.

That is an amazing statement. Squeak told me he liked the drawbar organ voices on the PSR3000 more then the Casio WK3500. He also thinks the PSR1500 is a better value then the PSR3000. Makes me want to go out and buy one.
Starkeeper

Starkeeper, I know you'd love the PSR-1500. It has everything the 550 doesn't. Mod. Wheel, internal sequencing (both song and style), large screen (like PSR-2000), drawbars, over 90 note poly, nice sounding speakers, and so on. It would be a huge jump for you coming from the PSR-550. I've never looked back on selling mine

Squeak

Hi AJ,
have you ever come across a Genesys?? Didn't realize we had them here in Aust.
Wish I realized that before I bought my SD1+, the xp module would have suited me better than an actual keyboard.
Haven't had a chance to see one yet, so don't know what the styles or quality of sound is like, but I do like some of the style editing functions I've been reading about.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bluezplayer:
[B]

Only an amazing offering from Ketron could possibly change my mind now,

Oh! Oh! Oh Rikki is going to do it again....spend money that is....but on hardware? Oh well, if you have a lot and you spend a little, you still have a lot!!!

It feels lonely in here but I have no where else to go with my software stuff. I guess I will quietly sit on a bench and let the musical world go by. It feels lonely in here but at least I can listen to the echoes of my mind.......


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 06-13-2006).]

Frank just wondering what you were playing before you embarked on the software trail ?

Hiya Frank,
I've been spending heaps, I've now got M1, Matrix 6 & Triton Orchestral ( soundfonts , that is) I'm at least $40 out of pocket . Still a bit left in the Piggy Bank haa haa.
May invest in a Yammie SY22 next (soundfont, what else). Fun being able to replace some of my old instrunments at 1% of the original price.

best wishes
rikki

Dnj, it is so long ago I just might get it wrong but in order something like this:

Software Based Systems for 5 or so years.

Yamaha 9000Pro
Yamaha PSR9000
Ketron X1
Roland G1000
Roland G800
Korg I2
Korg M1 with Roland Arranger Modules
Yamaha Organs .... many of them
Real Accordions

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 06-12-2006).]

Frank,
looks like we've pretty much had the same taste in keyboards
I've had the following also ( unfortunately plus some)

Yamaha 9000Pro
Roland G800
Korg I2
Korg M1
Roland Arranger Modules

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, I have this sinking feeling that......( unfortunately plus some)....should read......(unfortunately plus many more and many more to come)....don't you think?

You are really tempting me now.
Some here said that the accoustic piano is better on the PSR3000. I couldn't hear the difference.
Starkeeper


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 06-13-2006).]

Sounds like Glen Cambell lyrics.
Everybody's talkin' at me.
I don't hear a word they're sayin',
Only the echoes of my mind

I couldn't hear any difference either. Sounded the same on both models to me. I just don't really care for the high and low register on the PSR piano samples. They're not bad, but I think this is where the sample is weak.

Squeak

BeBop ... would you have made the switch if technics were still making kbs into the future?
t.

To my aging ears, there is a distinct improvement of the piano sounds of the 3000 versus the 1500. Both are good, but I believe the 3000 sounds a bit fuller, even at the high and low ends of the ranges. I created a custom piano sound for the 3000 several months ago and posted it for downloading at both the PSR-Tutorial and SVPworld forums. It tood a couple nights to make, but I believe it's a major improvement over any I've come across. It has been downloaded several hundred times, so I guess there are a few folks that may agree.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Gary

Can you post a link for that?

Thanks

Jerry

I may have spoken too soon. I went back and tried them all again. I need to have the T2 setup next to the G70. The good news is that the KB manager at Alto has promised to do this for me next time I go there.

My opinions of the sounds have not changed very much, except that I dug into the G70 a little deeper and found that I kind of like some of the styles. Not as busy, and with better fill matches than the PA, but maybe a little more spicier ( live sounding ? ) than the PSR1500. What I really did appreciate was the key feel ( superb, for me anyway ) and having 76 keys in front of me. What a difference the extra octave makes to me.

I'm going back soon and will ask Alto to run both through a pair of decent kb amps. My guess is that I will like the T2 sounds better, the styles will probably be fine on either, and I'll appreciate the bigger kb of the G70, as well as haow it sounds playing back standard midi files, making this a closer call, and a tougher choice, than I had hoped for. The G70 does have a harmonizer I think ? That might be the deal maker / breaker too.

The PA1x is still not in the running here, ( still sounds too much like my PA80, at least for me ) though I really do like the sliders....

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 07-14-2006).]

What was Alto selling the G70 for?

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

2699 Al.


BTW, I had gotten your email but I had a PC crash and lost the info. Then I went away for a couple of weeks. My apologies for not answering. I'd still like to talk to you, and I much appreciated the contact. If you would, please resend the email. If nothing else, we can talk arranger "shop".. Thanks

AJ

Hey Al:

What have you done about getting a more "latin flavor" in your playing (remember our discourse a few months ago)? I don't see any evidence of it on your web site (I like the photo album, BTW -- homey; nice).

PS: "Hittman" link is broken.

I find to often you can get the wrong impression of a keyboard when trying them in dealers or even attending demonstrations. It's only when you have it at home in your own environment can you assess it correctly and then you get to know the good and bad points...the problem then is in most cases you have already spent your money.