Hi I am considering buying either a Tyros or a Pa 80.I particularly want an arranger keyboard that enables me to edit my arrangements with a list edit function.ie I want to be able to record my song live in the style and afterwards be able to correct chord entry mistakes (ie chords too late or the wrong one etc).I also want to be able to easily mute tracks in the recorded song and be able to add my own tracks to it.I would also like a style morphing function if possibe.I would also like to be able to change styles within a song if possible.Sorry to be asking so many questions.I recently bought a roland va7 but was dissapointed with its lack of editing functions.Also the variphrase didn't work properly so I am able to take it back to the shop and change to another product.At the moment my choice it between these 2.I have used a korg i5m in the past and really enjoyed using it so am tending towards the PA 80.HOwever the posts about the tyros indicate that this might be a better choise.Thanks Rod

I don't know about the Tyros; others will have to answer, but the PA80 is a very deep machine - and some of it is still proprietary from Korg.

That said, on the IA forum, we are gradually peeling away the difficulties, from PRM to KAT2000 (I just recently wrote a paper to the download section that solved a major issue in Kat's "collected" files for editing in an external sequencer like SONAR).

The USB connection helps a lot also (the Hard Drive upgrade is a no-brainer).

In my opinion, the sounds and styles are gorgeous, with a lot - I mean a LOT - of excellent free styles available from both the Yahoo group and the IA forums.

En fin, I think it is one hell of a bang-for-the-buck, especially with all the help available on the forums.....

Chuck

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www.flamencochuck.com

Rod,
I have not used the record function that much on my Tyros and I did not use it on my PA 80 either as I choose to record externally instead, but.....both have editing capabilities, step recording etc. There is a limit on both machines as to how much in depth editing can be done. You should d/l the manuals for both and read through the record editing functions to make sure they do or do not have what it is you want to be able to do.

Both have style morphing capabilites. I find the Tyros one to be better and more straight forward then the PA was. There are more styles available for free on the net for the Tyros. The Tyros, I believe has a better more user friendly interface for my tastes than the PA has.

Both are very good boards with pros and cons to both. The PA has harder edge sounds to it by a little, the Tyros a bit mellower. The Tyros has a much better fill function that flows better into the styles than the PA has. It also has 4, PA only 2. The PA has the very cool feature of allowing you to overwrite the factory styles and create your own board of styles, the Tyros you can't and have to put them on the hard drive instead.

The Tyros has USB and software to arrange styles and tweek voices (although some feel it's too slow, I don't) Tyros flip up screen in color is very cool. The speaker setup is marginal, if you're going to use an onboard speaker set up.

Of course the best test is for you to go and play them both, because we primarily buy them for the sounds and styles. Buy the one that inspires you the most.

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jam on,
Terry
http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Hello Rob in Australia !

How's the weather ?
We're expecting more snow tonight here in Baltimore .

I would recommend using a computer and software for sequencing . A $60.00 version of Cubasis software will do more than any sequencer you'll find on an arranger keyboard .

Your statements about morphing I found interesting .

How about having a keyboard that would allow you to substitute a sequenced drum track, with one of the drum tracks of a style ?
This would allow you to have a reggae beat with "yesterday" or a cha cha beat with an elvis song . DRUM REMIX = Ketron XD9

You can edit sequences all in real time as it plays directly from the hard disk (optional) or floppy disk . Save your edits instantly on the hard drive .

You can also removed all parts except for drums and bass with one button . You can also remove the bass part of a sequence all in real time .

See if you can find the Ketron XD9 and compare . If not , I would definately recommend the TYRO's over the PA80 .

Dano in Charm City USA


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Piano Man's Music City
624 Frederick Rd .
Catonsville Md. 21228
410 747 0200
danosmusic@yahoo.com

I would see which one you like the best.

I can say the Pa80 can record a song usinging the styles, it is called backing sequence record. It can also quantize what you play so the chords hit at the right time. It also has a step record for this mode of recording as well.

You can also change the styles while recording.

It does not style morph. That is using morphing in the changing from one thing to another right before your ears.

The Pa does allow you to copy and paste from different styles, so you can manually create a new style from elements of other ones.

Aside from that everyone else has given the best advice, get the one that most inspires you.

I agree. Best for you to try them yourself if possible. Both are quality boards. Depending on what you have played in the past and which Operating systems you may or may not be familiar with, all things being equal most users will probably find the Yamaha O/S a bit easier to learn and understand. That said, a lot of it depends on you and your goals with an arranger and which one has the styles and sounds you prefer.

When you say editing, if you are including sounds, the PA80 will give you the most editing power of any arranger. If you are leaning toward dance / electronica, the PA80 will likely have the edge. Style morphing is a breeze in it too. The sounds inside both boards are excellent. The Tyros has some beautiful acoustic sounds, and the PA80 is not far behind ( if behind at all ). The PA80 lacks a bit in piano sounds vs the Tyros, but using performances ( layering individual sounds ) and the detailed patch editing taht is available on it.. a pretty good piano is obtainable. The styles.. all a mater of preference. Tyros styles sound more alive to me than any of the previous Yamaha arrangers I've worked with. The PA80 has very realistic sounding styles. Again a matter of preference.

I agree also with the thought of using an external sequencer. For about 30 bucks, Cakewalk Express will give you a lot more to work with than any internal sequencer can. It also does a good job with audio as well. N track studio does a great job with audio and from my understanding the midi sequencer is much improved in the latest versions.

AJ

The Tyros is a good board, although weak when it comes to editing on board. The genesys from Generalmusic has a killer sequencer on board and you would not need a computer to clean up your sequence. For those that are use to using a computer, yes, there isn't a sequencer on board that will compete with a computer sequencer, but for those that have trouble jumping from left to right brain activities, a good on board sequencer is the way to go.

Thanks PaulD,Bluezplayer,bitdump3,Dan01,trtjazz and Buleriachk for your replies.I greatly appreciate them and this forum.I am going over to Canberra to the store in a weeks time to try out the 2 machines but I am much more informed now.I am not going to be so dazzled by just the sounds and the salespitch this time.I'll let you know what I come back with although it's clear that either way I can't go wrong.I found that with the VA7 it was awkard using buttons and touchscreen at the same time with the right hand while changing chords with the L hand and I always made mistakes-and always had to redo recordings from scratch because there was no event editor to fix things up easily.I am tending towards the pa80 because it has mostly button control,and seems to cater to dance styles a bit better and seems to have sl more editing capabilities.I only hope I don't then always regret not having the awesome tryos sounds.It may be the case of filling the need rather than the want.Thanks again Rod

I played the korg once and didn't like it at all...
I never played tyros but I'd choose between the tyros and the XD9 (I recommed you this last one).

The Tyros sounds are awesome but I don't think you'll lose a lot in that department at all by going with the PA80 if that's what you decide to do. I'll put it another way. The Tyros is going to be my next arranger purchase unless something else appears on the horizon that I like better ( very unlikely ), but I wouldn't give up my PA80 if that's what it took for me to get one. There are a few sounds I've been able to make with it ( via layering with performance mode and editing of the individual patches ) that I haven;t been able to replicate in my Motif, my soft synths, or my samplers. I am not willing to part with it for that reason alone.

If I had the Tyros, I'd likely say the same thing if I was looking to get a PA80. I wouldn't want to give it up to get the PA80. Either board is an excellent choice. Happy Hunting and enjoy.

AJ

Well, I am a proud PA80 owner, with a 2 hours only experience with the Tyros.

My opinion is that KORG is easier than YAMAHA on programming side; but Yamaha voices are really great. Really.

Now, you will probably spend your time with your new board playing it (90%) and programming it (10%), so you should absolutely:

go to the shop;
put your hands on both boards;
evaluate how comfortable do you feel with them;
wich has the best sound (to your ears, of course).

Then take a look in your pocket, decide if your choiche is worth its price and ... have fun!

Stick with the Yamaies--they'll provide you with more options, superior voices, and while they're a bit more difficult to program, the learning curve is not all that bad. The PA-80 is a good board, but you should probably take the advice of many on this forum and compare them side by side, then dig deep into your wallet.

Good Luck,

Gary

Nobody refers to XD9 also as a good choice... Isn't XD9 a good choice?!...

I played PA80 for about 3 weeks. Currently, I own Yamaha PSR2000. Tyros is much better than PSR2000 from what I heard.

I would pick Yamaha anyday. I got frustrated with the PA80 and its un-intuitive user interface. There is no comparison if playing experience is what you are after. Of course, I'm just using the acoustic voices- not the dance stuff. Also the styles and fills on Yamaha is much-much better than the PA80. PA80 has serious issue on the fill-in department.

This is a major purchase for most people. I strongly urge you to try it extensively before committing yourself. I tried 5 keyboards (low-end) before settling down with the PSR2000. Guitar Center allowed returns within 30 days which is VERY useful.

Rod,

If you are considering PA80, make sure you like the way fill-ins behave. Some like it, but some don't. I don't like its behavior when playing factory styles, but I like it when it comes to user styles that are specifically created for a particular song. And the different behavior of fill-in and intro buttons, and chord variations will also come handy when creating styles.

Voice and drum kit editing is also very nice.
One can learn the OS for programming and editing. But when I plays live, some behavior of PA80 become annoying. e.g. To stop the acc and bass and play only the drums I have to push buttons: once to stop once again to start. On a Yamaha, you stop it from the keyboard and it synch starts when you hit the chord again. It's much easier; don't even have to take the hand away from the keys.

Shiral

Shiral,
Actually even though I am a Tyros fan now.....when I had my PA you can do what you are saying you can't.

With the PA you can hit one key and have the accmp. stop and just the drums playing or everything stop and either can start again by playing a chord as I recall...

I'm drawing from old memory here, so one of you PA owners help me out. There is a velocity setting seems to me on page 25 or 27 and by using this setting it gives you the options I just mentioned. Bottom of the page......chip in here someone, look at the screen that has the 20 something pages on it and look for the velocity settings.

Something that is kind of cool about the PA fills (though I think they suck in general) is that if you hit a fill 2x's quickly, it will stay on that fill and give you a long drum fill.

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jam on,
Terry
http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

For the $$$, it's a great choice!

Hi
Terry is talking about the menu feature that allows you to map the fills to the velocity, I think.

RicFreak is a very talented programmer, so I think that is why he finds the pa80 so easy to program. I'm just the opposite. I find the pa80 a pain in the rear. I like my Yamaha PSR2000 much more for both it's sounds and it's functions and programming.

But, when you get into the pa80, it can be a very, very cool keyboard. Especially if you have a lot of time to devote to it.

Tom G.

Tom,
I think what you are saying about the PA being a pain to program or tweek was true for me as well.

Ric and my friend AJ (bluezplayer) are both tweekers to the max and find the PA cool for this. I tweek only what I have to and is not my thing, nor do I have any fun doing it, so when I have to I want it to be as painless as possible, that was not my experience with the PA. Conversely, I find the Tyros very easy to navigate around and do what I dislike doing.

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jam on,
Terry
http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

The pa can mute any single style track, or all the ACC tracks and or Bass and drums with the Pad functions. Again you have to program them to do that, so once again it is a tweaky thing on the Pa80.

Seems the general idea is the Pa80 has a higher learning curve.

Terry,



Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried velocity sensitive switching feature before, but didn't like it. I tried it with fill-ins. When I hit hard it triggers the fill. The problem was, when the dance gets momentum I too start to hit hard and I inadvertently trigger fills. If I program this to stop when I hit it hard, the whole thing will stop inadvertently.

Also as far as I have seen, this only lets you assign the velocity sensitive switching to fill1, fill2, break, or start/stop etc. (one of the style control buttons). In other words, you can stop the whole thing or hit the break (that I dislike), but can not stop only the accompaniment.

As for bitdump3's comment about the pads; I have received this suggestion before, but I didn't like it for some reason. Since I can't remember what the suggested method was, I can't remember why I did not like it either. (Maybe because it did not solve the problem I am having with the way I do it now; having to take the hand away from the keys and having to press something twice)

Yamaha's approach is I think much better in this regard. I've pretty much never had to play three adjacent notes at the same time in the song. That's what they are using to stop the accompaniment. This doesn't mean that I do not like the PA80; it only means that I do not like only some of the ways of PA80 does things.

Shiral

I love you Tom!!!

Hi -well I had decided to get a PA80 but was unable to get it on exchange for the VA7 without playing an extra $1000 Australian -which was rediculous seeing that the PA 80 was about $1000 cheaper than the VA7 to start with.They would only give me the value of my VA7 puchase if I bought a more expensive keyboard on exchange.So I bought a Tyros and recieved it today by post-not having even seen or played one.I knew it was going to be good because of what many people here were saying.And I wasn't dissapointed.The sounds are great and it is so responsive to every change.The syles are also great.It is a really classy keyboard.I havn't delved into recording and editing yet but so far it is definitely worth the money.Thanks for your advise and suggestions on this forum.Rod

Roddey,
Congrats on the new board and from my perspective having owned both a wise decision indeed.

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jam on,
Terry
http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html