Niels has once again provided us with a great Roland G-70 demo. This one can be downloaded from the User Club Website . Thanks Niels

I don't want to pee on anyone's fire here, but I hvae to be honest. If I offend anyone let me apoligize now.

To tell you the truth, I haven't heard any demos from the G-70 that impress me (other) than the ones on the Roland website (both video and audio).

It's not saying that the G-70 isn't a good arranger. It sounds amazing, but I think users aren't doing it justice with their demos.

This latest demo (final countdown) doesn't impress me one bit. It's a song from the 1980's. Big whoop, any keyboard today can do an 80's song. Casio probably takes the charts on that one The thing is the 80's have already been done. How do you justify a great sounding keyboard by producing a demo from the 80's??????

I think the demos need to showcase the power in the G-70's acoustic voices and drum kits. Show the live flavor that board has.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off, it's just I haven't been impressed with demos outside of the Roland site.

Squeak

Well ouch, sorry for being negative here again and this in not a personal attack but forums are here for comments whether positive or negative so here goes.
The Final Countdown is my all time favourite 80's song and I was hoping to hear a good performance of it, however this song has simply just been killed.
Terrible style, cheesy brass sounds again, wrong chords played throughout and why has the solo that is played by a guitarist been missed out? The solo and lead synth line make the song.
Feel free to give me an ear bashing lol

I can only speak for myself, but your opinion certainly do not set me on fire It is obvious to me that you judge the demos by other crtierias that I (and probably many other) do. Doing an imitation of something from the 80's isn't obviously impressing you... well, that's fine. But to me, these demos aren't just about showing "the power in the G-70's acoustic voices and drum kits" like you ask to. I like to hear demos covering all genres - hereby demoing the diversity of the instrument. Chill out, my friend. Now we have heard an interpretation of a 80's smash hit - let's not belittle that initiative!... maybe next time Niels will record a song showing us the acoustic sound, which is so great on the G-70... then you might be happy, while others would have wanted to hear a techno demo...

Honestly I really enjoyed it.......
great live sound, driving drums, but a song like this needs to be done with vocals....
I think playing the melody line in such a famous tune took away much of its potential listener appeal. Otherwise, leave out the melody & sing it, then it will be a fine backing track for sure.
G70 is a fine KB for sure in the right hands.

No need for me to chill out. Never got overheated to begin with. This forum is for comments and I expressed mine.

I don't knock the iniative, I just don't think doing an 80's demo really says much about (any) keyboard released within the last few years. We've come so far since then.

I don't really care if someone does a Techno demo, but take the Roland site for example. have a look at the demo where the demostrater plays an Eric Clapton song using a style/D-beam, and that killer acoustic guitar on the G-70. Now that was impressive. It was simple but sounded great.

Squeak

I have received input/feedback from several sources regarding this demo, and if I should do a statistics based on the feedback, then I conclude that your opinion is of marginally significance... however, you are entitled to have this opinion. I wonder why every time 100 hundred people like something of quality, some guy or a few guys don't agree - often the same bunch of persons?!... why? well, could be many explanations for that, but like stated elsewhere: the demo speaks for it self Go with peace if you don't like it... In the meantime the rest of us are turning up the volume

BTW - where can I find some of your demos? Could be nice to hear, how it sounds, when you produce a demo that you think is satisfactional. Thanks in advance

[This message has been edited by weissefar (edited 01-15-2006).]

I thought the trumpet was 'right on' and look forward to hearing more from this promising arranger. From other demos (Roland lab personnel for example) I've heard and seen, it's only in time we will hear some astonishing work on this board. Sure wish I had one. I can just imagine using the guitar templates.....dreaming
zuki

Whenever someone puts something out in a public forum for evaluation and critique, if it isn't quite up to snuff, or at least in someone's opinion it isn't, that's just the way it is. It's always about opinions anyway, and since everyone has one, who's to say who is right or wrong ?

Who said anyone has to be a music producer or be able to produce "a better" demo in order to be qualifed to critique what they hear ? Who wrote that rule anyway ? I constantly see that on these forums as if it's a defense when someone's stuff gets crtiqued. Do you guys think that all of the top studio producers and major magazine critics are also necessarily always top flight musicians ?

I think the G70 itself sounds fine in this demo btw. Musically, to me, the piece isn't awful, the notes seems to be in place, but I won't say it sounds quite near the original or does justice to it. It sounds like a typical arranger being used to imitate a cover song, nothing wrong with that since many of us buy arrangers for just that perpose.... but it just doesn't give me quite the same feel as the real and "real" analog instruments that were used in the original. Then again very few of today's synths seem to do the analog sounds with the same force. Ya know what though..? If we were to see "Europe" doing this piece live today I'm guessing it probably wouldn't sound exactly like the original either.

I still get the impression from the demos I hear that both the G70 and PA1x sound more like a live performance, while The Tyros sounds more like a CD recording. I think the Tyros has the cleaner sounding lead instruments, but I think maybe I prefer the live performance sound of the other's styles.

Real analog is almost a funny term too btw, since analogs in the early days were advertised as having been designed to mimic real acoustic instruments. We all know how that turned out, but many of the popular sounds made by them are now classic in their own right and are sought out to this day, by me included. I absolutely love analog and some of the better wave based synths that followed it, like the Korg Wavestation for example.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-15-2006).]

Again a nice demo Nielsh, well played.
Those negative comments are not fair and
must not be taken too serious.
They are echoes from the passed.

Posted by: Bluezplayer
--------------------------------------------
Whenever someone puts something out in a public forum for evaluation and critique, if it isn't quite up to snuff, or at least in someone's opinion it isn't, that's just the way it is. It's always about opinions anyway, and since everyone has one, who's to say who is right or wrong ?
Who said anyone has to be a music producer or be able to produce "a better" demo in order to be qualifed to critique what they hear. Who wrote that rule anyway ? I constantly see that on these forums as if it's a defense when someone's stuff gets crtiqued. Do you guys think that all of the top studio producers and major magazine critics are also necessarily always top flight musicians ?
--------------------------------------------

AJ's dead on there! If you don't want "honest" responses then don't put your work out there. Just because some like the work doesn't mean "everyone" will.

I think the G-70 is a terrific arranger. When I first saw the video demo on the Roland site where he played Eric Clapton's (change the world), I thought "MAN HOW SWEET THAT SOUNDS!". The demo was so simple, but man what a great "live" feel to the sound.

I have no problem with music from the 1980's, but if you're wanting to showcase what a keyboard can do, choosing a song from this era (in my opinion) isn't the way to go.

My Casio WK-3500 (even though it has good acoustic sounds), would make some KILLER 80's music. Why is that???? It's a Casio need I say more

I would love to hear some demos from the G-70 doing more "live" music styles, such as Tracy Chapman, ect. I think the G-70 like AJ has said has more of a "live" feeling to it when compared to the Tyros. The Tyros does sound like it's just playing back from a CD.

Squeak


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-15-2006).]

I thought it was "interesting" ...
What I can't understand is what I think is the 'over' reaction to criticism ...the guy's got his opinion and voiced it ... isn't that what putting songs up here is about ... getting other players' reaction and feedback??? ... I think it's better than putting a song up here and getting NO feedback !!!
t.

Hi

Craig_UK,


The purpose of this demo is to demonstrate one of the new SR-G01 styles and not to make an exactly copy of the orginal song.
The Final Countdown isn´t a easy tune to play with 2 hands. Remember that I recorded this demo using only one track. Sorry if I use some wrong cords, should have listend to the orginal song before making this demo.
Maybe you can do it better. Looking forward to hear your rendition.

Regards Niels

I agree Tony......many times there are too many phony feedbacks also "just to be nice" vs honest ones .....lets just hope we all learn from what we listen to.......
I know I do good or bad.

Hi,

I listened to the demo a couple of times because at first I was distracted by the wrong harmony. The style is promising. Good distortion feedback guitars. I was not impressed by the synth voice.

I am curious to hear how the same song would sound on the Tyros 2.

The synth voices ( and organs ) are important sounds in a huge way for me. That's why I'm leaning a little more toward the PA1x right now. I haven't heard any demos yet from either the Tyros 2 or the G70 that lead me to believe that the synth voices are on par with those on the PA80 I have or even the MZ2000 I once had. This of course is for my own personal taste, but I think the synth voices on my Motif ES workstation, minus the AN150 plug in, don't match up to the MZ or PA80 either.

I have to believe that the PA1x's will be at least as good as the ones I have on the PA80, and maybe even better.

AJ

to anyone who owns a tyros2 please post your version so that people can decide if the g70 sounds better than tyros2 or crap compared to tyros2

to anyone who owns a tyros2 please post your version so that people can decide if the g70 sounds better than tyros2 or crap compared to tyros2

Rolandfan,

You again

I know you have a Tyros right, so please make a demo of The Final Countdown.

The only crap here is your childish comments.

Niels

Posted by: Dnj
--------------------------------------------
I agree Tony......many times there are too many phony feedbacks also "just to be nice" vs honest ones .....lets just hope we all learn from what we listen to.......
I know I do good or bad.
--------------------------------------------
Very good point Dnj. People shouldn't sugar coat their opinions. Look at what I posted a while back. Remember my sorry attempt at country music? I asked for opinions, and if someone thought it sucked just say so..., and someone did say it sucked Didn't hurt my feelings, I asked for the opinions of others.

Squeak

Squeak.....
I agree perceptions vary greatly in music, its a never ending opinion, right or wrong, honest or false, the answer I'm affraid we'll never know

Personally I think this is a good demo of the Roland, sounds pretty good to me.

I think ut's a brave move to try this song, I love the song and it is a classic of that era. Nevertheless, I can hear bits where I'd have played different chords, or where I feel the style isn't quite "on the money".

BUT

We should remember that this is the way things are with arrangers; unless the style is precisely targetted at a specific song there are always going to be compromises, and conversley if a style is created specifically to "do" a certain song then the odds are it will be useless for other songs.

I find if I want something "spot on" I have to use a midi file. And there are midi files of this song out there that are far worse than this version.

I think we should always encourage people to post their work, and when I think I'm good enough I might have a go!

So well done Neils! It's better than I could manage.

Good Work Niels!!!!...We must remember, Music is a Guide, The creativity comes from the HEART...These new Keyboards are Arranger Workstations...designed to let us be Creative, compose, arrange, write..not to copy other Music!...We have waited along time for the Synth Workstation features in the Arrangers....Keep on, Keepin' On!....Harold

PS...It seems like it always turns into My toy is better than your Toy...If we all Played the Same exact Keyboards it would be a VERY Boring World...Hummm....Well at least My STEELERS Won Today...They beat a EXCELLENT Proven football team, the COLTS.
Are the Colts going to quit?...Nope, They will continue Developing Their Music (Game!)

Wow!
Most of the responders forget that it is an "arranger" keyboard that is being played(you know,for doing your own arrangements on),and therefore the demo is the player's own arrange-ment of the tune.

The old saying," Criticism is the unconscious tribute mediocrity pays to success" certainly applies here...or, in plain English,"if someone is trying to kick your ass...then you must be ahead of them"
I don't hear any of the critics posting their arrangement of this tune... if they are so ready to suggest how it should be played.
Ian

I have no problem with the tune. I know the original song and like the song. However, I personally don't think that a song like this is a good example to "showcase" a keyboards sounds.

Other's may have, but I didn't pick the song apart. I think it's just a bad tune to use when trying to show what the G-70 can do.

It's so funny too, because people post on this forum all the time wanting opinions on a song, and when the opinions go negative suddenly it's "well let's see you do it better". If you got the balls to post a song for criticism then you better have even bigger balls to take that criticism whether it be negative (or) positive. Sorry for the termonology there, but that's how I feel.

Squeak

Here it is done on the Tyros1. (note: not done by me )
http://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/sample/german/1068828.mp3

Eric

One voice sounds off in the begining of the T2 version. Sounds like it's using a sax when it should be using a guitar. Is it just a midi file using the XG voice, or did you revoice the song accordingly?

Squeak

Hi Eric

It´s a very good midifile.

Regards Niels

Hi Squeak,

it's the Tyros1 not T2.
The sax in the beginning is the end of the singing part before the solo.

It's a midi from Yamaha Germany.
I just posted the link since some here wanted to hear the Yamaha engine.

Of course you really can't compare a commercial midi file with someone playing it live.

Eric

Mr. Squeak,
Your response: "If you got the balls to post a song for criticism then you better have even bigger balls to take that criticism whether it be negative (or) positive" can be taken from another perceptive...
If you have the balls to criticize someone else's work,you should, at the very least, have the balls(and skill) to do something better.In other words,if someone is doing something wrong,then please show them the correct way.
Otherwise it is just all talk...and talk is cheap...

I don't believe the poster asked for criticism. Asking a "working musician" what he thinks about critics,is like asking a statue how it feels about pigeons.

Ian

Don't get me wrong. I didn't have a problem with the author's rendition of the tune. I think I stated that clearly in my first post. I just don't think the instrument that was used quite fits the tune. That's just my opinion, nothing else. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. But, since we've now broached the subject, it doesn't sound to me like a very accurate rendition musically either.

Yes, those of us that frequent this forum are ALL aware that it was made with a style from arranger that wasn't tailor made for the song, but then again mostly everyone in a potential target audience won't know that or care about it. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't play my stuff for an arranger playing audience. Let's forget that it was made on an arranger for a minute and let the interpretation of the song stand on it's own merits. Play it for someone you know who doesn't understand, or even try it out on another musos forum, like HC or KVR for instance, and see what kind of response it gets. I think that might be a much better test.

That said.. It seems like quite a few folks get offended when someone offers their honest opinion about something that was put out there in public for critique in the first place. C'mon don't go with " he didn't ask for criticism " . That's just lame. You put it out there and you expect feedback, and feedback is exactly what you should get. Oh wait.. Maybe it should come with the disclaimer "Please don't comment if your opinion of the piece doesn't include a glowing review".


I also can't help feeling that..."There it is again".. That same lame argument or response of " Let's hear your stuff or rendition ", when the respondent doesn't offer a glowing commentary. Since I've never tried to play it in the first place, I guarantee you that I could not play this entire song accurately without some practice, but if I thought it was worth the effort ( and it isn't because I'll never play it.. it's just not my style ) I surely would get it down.

I don't get that mentality at all. Some here are musicians, other are composers, some ar primarily singers, perhaps others strongest suits have to do with engineering in the studio, some may be strong in all of these areas, while others are relative beginners in any of the fields of music. So tell me, exactly what qualifications does someone need in order to state what they like and don't like about a song, and who decided those rules in the first place ? Was it you Ian, and did you anoint yourself or did we collectively decide that you should be our group conscience ? Should anyone who offers any critique be required to have the ability to do a better rendition ? read ing what you stated I guess none of us should give any credibility to any of the pro critics either, realizing that many probably can't do a replication of a work that they might comment on ? I think Squeak has every right as a member of this forum to give his honest opinion without someone flaming him to shreds for it. Will you ask a non musician who potentially may not like it for their rendition as well ?

If it makes the G70 guys feel better, I don't think the Tyros version sounds like the original either, and this came from a midifile that should at least be fairly close to being musically correct. The guitar doesn't sound right to me, and the lead voice is definitely not analog sounding. I don't know what synth the original used, I'm guessing a Jupiter or Juno, but I pretty much know when something either uses a real or modeled analog ( Final Countdown certainly did ) or when it sounds like an accurate rendition of an analog, and that ain't quite it. There I said it... so now both groups can be p'o d at us Squeak ..lol


AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-15-2006).]

---------------------------------------------
Mr. Squeak,
Your response: "If you got the balls to post a song for criticism then you better have even bigger balls to take that criticism whether it be negative (or) positive" can be taken from another perceptive...
If you have the balls to criticize someone else's work,you should, at the very least, have the balls(and skill) to do something better.In other words,if someone is doing something wrong,then please show them the correct way.
Otherwise it is just all talk...and talk is cheap...
I don't believe the poster asked for criticism. Asking a "working musician" what he thinks about critics,is like asking a statue how it feels about pigeons.

Ian
---------------------------------------------

Re-read my post. Not at any point did say anything negative about his version of this song. I didn't make any comments as to how he composed it either. I just commented that I felt it was a "poor" song choice to showcase the G-70's abilities.

My statement about posting for comments was "in general", and I'll stand firmly behind what I said.

How sad is this, and childish can a person be to say "well let's see you do it better". What is this the third grade????? Imagine if all the music stars out there said the hell to their fans, and if you don't like this song lets see you do it better. Plus just imagine if the rising stars working with producers who said sorry kid that song is crap say, well let's see you do it better................ Keep up that mentallity if you like, it only hurts you.

People need to FULLY read posts before responding. Yeah I made that statement and I'm sticking to that. At least I was honest about it.

Squeak

. I believe that someone should never criticize someone's hard work or playing in public(like on a forum). That creates embarrassment and feelings of humiliation, and causes resentment rather than change..

No wonder there are so many problems with this site,and so many people leave.

Nothing produces stress like criticism. Offering constructive criticism to someone has its place.... but I think it would have much better effect if done in private if it were the negative kind...

I believe criticism should be given only whenever it is requested or when it is truly required? It is plain to see it wasn't requested on this post...just read it. I believe in having respect for other people's work....and do my criticizing in private.
---------------------------------------------
Mr.Squeak,

" I just commented that I felt it was a "poor" song choice to showcase the G-70's abilities."

Saying it was a "poor song" choice infers that you know better than the player....that seems rather negative, and critical of his ability to choose correctly.
---------------------------------------------
" I'll stand firmly behind what I said."

Standing "behind" your statement is a good choice of words.
--------------------------------------------
"How sad is this, and childish can a person be to say "well let's see you do it better". What is this the third grade????? "

It is not,"let's see you do it better". It is more like"if you are competent enough to point out me what is wrong,than you should be competent enough to show me the correct way." That's pretty basic stuff and very far from childish.
---------------------------------------------
" Yeah I made that statement and I'm sticking to that. At least I was honest about it ".

Does your "honesty" justify public embarrassment?
--------------------------------------------
Mr.Bluesplayer,you said,

C'mon don't go with " he didn't ask for criticism " That's just lame "

Bluesplayer,pay attention....there was no asking for criticism....read the post. The lameness seems to be in your statement.
---------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------
And you also said "Was it you Ian, and did you anoint yourself or did we collectively decide that you should be our group conscience ? "

Bluesplayer, You seem to be in charge of the group conscience judging by the following statement you made.
You said,"You put it out there and you expect feedback, and feedback is exactly what you should get. "

Bluesplayer,do you somehow know what everyone else expects ..... even when they don't ask?

You said,"If quite a few folks get offended"
Bluesplayer,maybe there must be something amiss if it's "quite a few"getting offended.Maybe they really are offended? Don't give me the excuse that they shouldn't be...that's why people leave.Dish out the bad stuff in private...is that too much to ask?

My point is that negative public criticism serves no purpose......very few people like it...read my comments to Squeak

You guys don't like it done to you...like I'm doing right now.

I love this forum....and thanks for reading this far.

Ian

removed at poster's own request for being too unimportant

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-16-2006).]

Whatever...

Hi There
Doesn’t do much for me, as the sounds stray to far from the original, and I always prefer a tune to be produced in the same style/sound of the original or a total change, thus making it a totally fresh arrangement.

Bill

For me it is not so important which instru-
ments are used in a song. The freedom of
making music is to play it how you like it.
The same song can be played in thousand
different ways and they can all be good.

Nice song for me, even if it is not my genre of music.
Very nice drums sound, well equilibrated.
Very nice lead sound (for me).
Even if it is a keyboard, to me it sounds good and live, better than some T2 songs.
Stam

Well reading all of the posts to nielshs's Final Countdown song I think we can all come to the conclusion that more people liked it than disliked it.
This is a forum so it's a free for all when it comes to being positive or negative. I've posted positive comments to people's postings in the past because I didn't want to upset their feelings, but if everyone was to post positive comments on here all of the time, everyone's heads would be up their backside by this time next year, so in future I'll stick to posting what I feel.
If it's bad I'll state so, if I think it's good then I'll praise the poster

The first half of this statement is what has brought about DJs over 'live' musicians ... it's too bad there doesn't seem to be more of an audience for the second half of the statement ...

t.

In an on-line forum lacking face-to-face contact, constructive criticism can be easily misinterpreted and online exchanges often spiral out of control.Any poster who has not asked for criticism and is given it anyway,is bound to react the same way...I have seen it many times on this forum and I have seen good players and nice people leave because of it.

I shall submit any criticisms (if asked for them) by private message to the poster.

Ian

Very very nice... The demo of the G-70 was better from the Tyros..
But the chords in the G-70 demo was lacking something- the base.. hmm.. I mean, I wanted to here these chords:
Gm | Eb | Cm | F x2
Gm , F/A | Bb , Eb | Dsus , D7

I mean: F/A instead of F, and Dsus instead of D. These are the "real" ones.

[This message has been edited by bomba6 (edited 01-16-2006).]

I would love to play final countdown for u but unfortunately i sold my tyros1 when tyros2 was released. I am still waiting for my dealer to get one. Hey while i wait i dont mind giving the g70 another try but the dealer is too lazy to upgrade it to v2...so i wont know how good v2. Its still the orignal version 1.1 which i played last year.