I'm selling my Roland VA-7 and was hoping Roland would have a new guy coming out but it doesn't look so?

Instead having a SD-1 I was wondering if anybody could compare these keyboards to each other so I could have a reference point, thanks

I have , I have ! dano

search the threads ?

I had the Tyros in my store for one afternoon and I've had the Genesys available for over a month. what would you like to know specifically about these two keyboards. I have posted a review of both about a month ago.
The major differences are these:
1)Tyros has 128 note polyphony vs 64 Genesys
2)Genesys has an internal hard drive and a CD player/recorder vs Yamaha comes with FD only and you must install an optional hard drive if you desire.
3)Genesys comes with built in Speakers and weighs 69 lbs.vs Yamaha no speakers (27lbs) and speakers are an option.
4)Genesys has a full mixing console with automated mixing and sliders for all channel volumes vs Tyros uses screen interface for changing volumes one at a time
5)Sound quality excellent on both
6)Style quality excellent on both
7)Genesys has 32 track sequencer with excellent editing parameters vs Tyros 16 track sequencer without as many editing parameters
8)Genesys has mono and stereo sampling vs Tyros none.
9) Yamaha has big beautiful color monitor vs Genesys plaine grey and white
I could go on and on, but unless you have somehthing specific, I will just say this. These are two great keyboards and either one is a real winner in my opinion. You need to decide which features are more important to you! Genesys is out now, Tyros in another month. Price is about the same when you add the speakers and hard drive to the Tyros (depending on how much you pay for a hard drive, the Genesys might be a couple of hundred dollars more)
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thanks,

Looking for a board that is more usable for live situations, with being a definite addition to the SD-1, Ease of use, ability to pick and play midi files in live situations, I think the sounds of the yamaha are very impressive, and I know in the past, the op system is very easy once you get used to it.

Basically I'm looking for a VA-7 done right. Hard drive, instant midi file access, easy to use sequencer, great sounds for live playing. I( i think I just described my SD-1)

thanks guys

I own a SD1 and it is still a great keyboard and can compete with any of the new ones that are coming onto the market. I've heard the KN7000, for me this Technics wasn't an improvement on their last effort which didn't impress me anyway, so that was out of the question. I've only heard the Tyros MP3 demos. It looks nice, has some good styles and sounds (the guitars are good) but it still sounds like a PSR9000 revamped and having to buy a hard drive extra is a bit stingy by Yamaha. The Genesys was the first of the new arrangers I heard and I was so impressed I purchased one 3 weeks ago. The MP3 demos on Gems site do not do this keyboard justice so, I have sent new MP3 demos to a guy on Synthzone who is going to kindly put them up on his site for all to hear. This instrument is easy to use, great sounds and styles, being able to record a song direct to it's CDRW is simple, lovely 32 track sequencer, sampling capabilities, it's worth every penny. It does weigh more than the others, but it's certainly not as heavy as some I've had in the past or people are making it out to be.
It has a large screen which is a nice clear blue colour, not grey and white as mentioned elsewhere too.
Listen to them all and good luck with whatever you purchase.

I checked out the Genesis at Winter Namm and though I was impressed with its terrific acoustic sounds (including a terrific acoustic piano sample) & plethora of bells & whistles (CD burning capabilities, MP3 playback,etc), I consider the Genesis better suited for the studio rather than as a live gigging board. If you need an 'ALL in ONE box' type production studio, then the Genesis fits the bill.

How about genesys/tyros comparison for dance studio gear?

George, Eric, anyone?

Thank you.

I gig with my SD1, G1000 and Genesys. I don't agree with you saying the Genesys is better suited for studio. I wouldn't have paid over £2000 just for it to sit in my studio. The sounds and styles are well suited for live use and it is quicker than my SD1 when changing performances. The live sliders are ideal for mixing different sounds when playing live.

Hi Guys I am steping in on this subject.
Firstly it's a joke to say that Genesys is a Studio thing, I gig nearly every night and I just purchased one about 5 days ago, let me tell you all, I was thrilled by the beautiful sounds this new keyboard has, I describe them the best of the best no arguments about them. the problem is that there are so many good sounds to choose from that it will take a while to know all where they are. For those who like me use almost any type of backing this is the keyboard to go for. you can play any kind of midi file, mp3+lyrics, audio file, and what we call GEM songs, which mind you are superior to midi files. Edithing on this keyboard is like you are on a computer you can edith any thing on it.the ram is 5 mega
so you can upload over 62 midi song in it, you can play DIRECT from Hard disk, or CD Ram, Or Flopy or you can add an SCSI interface and upload and download direct from a computer or zip drive, what's more!!! there are so many feautures that I would never stop.In my opinion this is a state of the art keyboard and it is made from Sheet metal which I like very much cause PLASTIC will become very fragile by time. It is a heavy keyboard must admit but then you have a very good sound in it so if you dont like a heavy keyboard my advice take the SPEAKERS OFF, and buye it. and one other thing don't just listen to a quick demo. It took me about 3 days to start apreciating this keyboard properly. My advice for those who play live go and get this keyboard!!! Any Questions you like to ask please do.

Tony.

Well after all this chit chat between these two boards, I went back and listened to all the demos of both I could lay ears on. I think both are great sounding boards.....however (or but if you prefer) To my ears, the Genesys voices sound quite a bit harsher or brasher, the Tyros sounds mellower to me. Not saying either is bad, just an observation. For my needs the mellower Tyros sounds suit me better.

As for sheet metal vs plastic I will not live long enough for the plastic to disentegrate and if perchance I were to......I'll be sick of the board by then and want a new one anyway.
Terry

Eyrec,
I'm sorry for stating the wrong color of the screen of Genesys. I was called it white when it is a slight blue color. I agree with the majority of you who have played and use the Genesys. It is just as much a live arranger keyboard as any I sell. The weight is an issue for many customers coming into my store and what kind of a case they will get to put it in. I said this in my post yesterday, both the Tyros and the Genesys are like choosing a BMW or a Mercedes. Both are great sounding keyboards.
I would also like to mention that thanks to the boys at Generalmusic, I now have the middle eastern arabic and iranian styles and sounds for the Genesys keyboard at my store. For musicians needing these kinds of styles and sounds, Genesys has them!
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

trtjazz, you don't say whether you were listening to the actual demos on the keyboards in real life or listening to MP3 or worse online. While online audio is very cool it can not be used to really judge hifi sound quality. MP3 at any level is less than CD quality and tends to screw around with frequency bands when compressing audio. Alway try to audition keyboards in a store before making a decision on sound quality.

Sorry trtjazz,((harsher or brasher))!!!
You are absolutley WRONG about the sounding of GENESYS it sound as mellow as angels don't listen to demos listen to the real thing ,I tell you it sounds better than an audio cd when playing either midi file or styles. go and listen to the real thing and then decide. George I get it that GEM are going to have for sale the SOFT CASE. so that problem is solved as well.

Nigel & Ziggy,
I'm not flaming the Genesys here boys ....only my impression of the online sounds.

I listened to all the demos that Gem has plus the ones made personally made by Craig and Mike put up on the site.

So, all things being equal in that whatever MP3 does to ruin one set of sounds on the Genesys would apply also to the Tyros I would suspect and what I hear is that the voices on the Genesys seem "harder" if you will, while the Tyros seem to be "softer"

Again, I am not saying that the Genesys sounds suck, to the contrary great sounding board, just a matter of preference.

I would make the same comparison between a Motif and a Karma or Triton. Mo a bit softer Korg a bit harder. I suppose an easier way of trying to understand what I am saying.....it's much like adding more bass or more treble to a voice, the treble would make it sound harder, the bass softer.

Does that make sense? Unfortunately, the only place I would be able to hear a Genesys live is at George's and a 2 day round trip to hear it....isn't going to happen.

Once again....I AM NOT FLAMING THE GENESYS, just my impression of what I hear, just a subjective opinon of all the demos I heard.
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 09-25-2002).]

Hi Terry, of course we are just putting our opinions nothing personal, but I have the keyboard and believe me I am very fuzzy about the sounds and I can tell you they sound to your taste, the thing I like about Genesys is that you can EDITH not alomost but EVERYTHING in it, so for every sound you have in a mixedown you can an alternative of a reverb and an effect so you can adjust the sound to your tasete. My point is not wich one is best but which one is best for LIVE performance and I say without a dought that Genesys is way in front to the others.I forgot to mention the harmoniser which is really pro. I have tried an everly brothers song and it sounded really like they are singing themselves.and with the Genesys you have over 200 midisongs which are the best you can find anywhere some of them are Tune1000 and others are made by pro sequencers if you where to bye them from the net they would cost you over $400 so consider that as a bonus most of them have the VOCODER cords ready plus Lyrics, isn't that a bargain???. have to go now I'll keep putting more info in the future.

Tony.

Good morning all,

Just thought I'd clear this up and let you know that the new Genesys' demos come from the keyboard itself (or off the CD that comes with the keyboard). Craig emailed me the MP3's and I streamed them (on the slim chance that they might be copyrighted and I don't want/need GEM getting mad at me for making their MP3's download-able). I'm currently encoding the rest of the demos and will post them soon.

I'm with Nigel when it comes to making that final judgement...Ya gotta be there listening to the actual sounds. MP3's can really be harsh sounding (they crank the levels to compensate for the bits they removed)(that's a crude analogy but it's true). And these MP3's are hot as far as the levels go...Even got the 'clipping' warning when playing them with SoundForge 6.

I can see why some folks might have heard 'mechanical' or 'tizzy' or 'sizzle'....I did. I thought the highs were kinda harsh and the drums were a little on the 'machine' sounding side. But I had to remind myself that I was listening to something that has been 'processed' quite a few times. I still enjoyed what I heard and can't wait till I get to hear one live and in person.

Of course my feelings are mutual for the Tyros too!

mike

My problem is no one in the CT area carries GEM, and the ones that do carry Yamaha most likely won't have the Tyros.

So my purchase as was the SD-1 will be on mostly what I get from this forum.

Question 1. The Gem board, are the speakers permenantly mounted, if so what kind of case could be used for this? Also where do you put the music stand, how far up will it be?

Question 2. From the 2, which one has an easier sequencer to use. I find the SD-1 seq a bit on the steep learning curve to the point I don't use it.

Question 3. Midi file playback, Roland seems to play them back the best overall, SD-1 is a very close second and at sometimes for certain songs better.

Question 4. Is getting a GEM basically a different version of another Italian keyboard like the SD1, or would I get a more versitilty change with the Yamaha


Thanks

Frank

Here goes:-
MP3's will never sound as good as the actual instrument itself. Everyone has different tastes, different ears, different setups when playing them back etc. so what may seem harsh to some will sound wonderful to others. Some of the Tyros demos do sound good (guitars), some sound very tinny and weak to my ears, it's a case of you have to be in front of the keyboard in question.
Answering the questions below:-
1. The speakers are built into the keyboard and are excellent quality. Gem will be releasing a case for it soon, but I've telephoned lots of case companies in the UK and all could make one for a Genesys. The stand is very good quality and does not sit about 3 feet above the keyboard, it is perfectly placed. Some Technics have stands mounted higher.
2. The Genesys's sequencer is 32 track and is very easy to use. Being an SD1 owner too, I find the Genesys far easier to get to grips with.
3. Midi file playback all depends on the company/source of song you are using. Genesys is certainly on par with any Roland I've heard (I use a G1000 and also had a VA76 for a few weeks before deciding it was not very good for a live performer). Gems own songs are excellent and so are my mates company which is www.songgalaxy.com
He offers midi files and MP3 format songs and all have demos to listen too before buying, check it out.
4. The Genesys is nothing like a SD1. I was worried that it may be at first since Ketron have made the speakers/amplification I think for the Genesys. Also, the Ketron SG1 is a Genesys under a different name, very confusing. Genesys sounds are totaly different to SD1.
Since the Tyros doesn't have a hard drive, MP3 playback, CDRW etc. I'd say the Genesys is far more versatile - listen to both and judge for yourself.

Thanks, that's kinda what I was interested in. I generally loved the smooth sounds of Yamaha, always made me think of a very polished recording. That's why I thought it would have been a great compliment to my SD-1. But I've also have played older PSR that to my opinion seemed too polished and didn't have any dynamic type balls, (can't really think of the proper way to describe)
I'm probably leaning more towrds the Genysis but I would really like to try both. Also it seems that GEM and Ketron were always slighly ahead of everyone else. The other companies did everything smoother in the long run. If you look at the Tyros, it seems yamaha has gotten to the level the SD-1 is at and has an easier smoother Japanese type setup.

I wanted to make some comments regarding the dance and techno styles on Genesys. I was quite impressed with the Genesys ability to use synth parameters such as filters and envelopes being manipulated in real time durning the recording process so that while playing back these styles, sounds are constantly changing more as in a pro synth being used in the style creation rather than an arranger keyboard's limited synth sounds. In Genesys, if you go to the screen called easy edit, you can select just the one track you are recording a style with and change parameters while you are recording in the overdub mode therefore applying realtime control changes in your track. To be fair, I can't really compare this with the Yamaha Tyros because while it was here in my store, I didn't get that deep into the dance and techno styles, except what I heard did sound quite good.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thank you George. Anything you can find out on these 2 boards (for dance/techno) would be really appriciated by many!

Thanks again.

By the way, is Genesys expandable in terms of adding sopunds and stuff?

Genesys is very expandable. In terms of sounds there will be new ones from Gem, I'd imagine people will have sites up soon for them too (user clubs etc), it loads most of the other Gem styles (WK8 etc) also loads from CD Akai, Kurzweil, wav, smp, snd, mp3 etc - unlimited flexibility.

How tall is the Genysis compared with other keybaords when you have the music holder on it.

From the pictures it looks like with the speakers angled and the music stand its about 2 feet higher

This can be done on Yamaha PSR's too, I've heard it to great effect on the techno and trance type styles of the PSR's where sysex data is embedded into the styles to perform filter sweeps and resonance analog effects. It can be achieved by mapping the modulation wheel to the filters and then sweeping during record, or using the mixing desk screens.

Simon




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Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
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If you look at one of my postings higer up you'd have seen the answer. The stand does not sit 2 foot above the keyboard, it is perfectly placed and not as high as a Technics I could mention.

Sorry, must have forgotten you wrote that.