I had an opportunity to try a PSR 3000 yesterday for the first time. I particularly wanted to hear the mega voices.
However, when I used them, there seemed to be a lot of silent notes... I would only get a response from a key here and there.
Was I doing something wrong or was there something wrong with the keyboard?

Sunny,
The megavoices are multiple layered sounds that respond differently with different velocities. They are intended for use with sequencers and backing tracks and not for live play. It's almost impossible to play them manually. There's nothing wrong with the kb - it's designed that way.

Fortunately, most of the samples used in mega voices are also used in the preset XG voices (i.e. Panel Voices). They will play normally.

To hear the MegaVoices at their best, just play styles that use them.

Regards,

Michael

Thanks, Dave... Guess I will just have to study up more on this. I know that these mega voices have been given a lot of hype.
What are the comments of those on here who have used them?
Gerry

Mike, you beat me to the draw by 1 minute... thanks for your input also.
Gerry

Mega voices add a lot of legitimacy to the styles and definitely make a noiceable improvement. Unfortunately Megavoices are not designed to be played live and a lot of people feel misled when they find out megavoices are for styles and midi sequences only.

I think for arranger keyboards the Megavoices are not at all over-hyped and really help get away from the canned MIDI sound.

Megavoices are also a wonderful asset for anyone who is up for making their own styles. I'm sure it would take a lot of work to get incredible results; but the capability is definitely there.

While you can not play MegaVoices, you can convert midis (and styles) to use them.

Programs such as MidiPlayer change the voice and rescale the velocities etc, but do not add the sound effect tracks (fret noise, etc)

MegaEnhancer by Yamaha does the conversion and does include some effects (I am not sure if it does it for all MegaVoices or only some). It only works with mid files, but you can use StyleMaker to use it with styles.

Regards,

Michael

Wooh...Wait a minute....Help me out here.

I have never owned a Yamaha, and I am completly lost with this Mega voice stuff.

...Not for live play...
..Just play styles that use them...
..For styles and midi sequences only...
...While you can not play MegaVoices, you can convert midis (and styles) to use them

Can't Play Them ?! ??!! What ??? Uh ??

Excuse me, but I have been a Technics owner for quite a while now. With a Technics, I can play any sound at any time. If I purchase the PSR3000, are you telling me I can't simiarly use all the built in voices?

I'm starting to get it though. Yamaha has put a lot of stock in midi files, while Technics is more live recording/sequencing.

I suppose I need some Yamaha lessons, but I do know that Midis are not my favorite format.

Larry



[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 09-03-2004).]

Larry:

MegaVoices are different than regular voices. They vary depending upon the velocity used and the note. This is the way that Yamaha is able to get different samples to be triggered from the same program specification.

An example:

Steel Guitar

C-B5: velocity= 1-20 is Open Soft, 21-40 is Open Medium, 41-60 is Open Hard, 61-75 is Dead, 76-90 is Mute, 91-105 is Hammer, 106-120 is Slide, 121-127 is Harmonics.

C6-B7: all velocities, strum noise
C8-G8: all valocities, fret noise

That is quite a lot of guitar to be available to one midi program change specification.

Now, while a live player can control the note pitch with ease, restricting the velocity to a narrow range is almost impossible. Therefore, playing these voices(in the megavoice formmat) live is not really an option. But Yamaha makes up for it by using the same samples in the Preset voices. They are very similar overall, but do not contain the effects such as fret noise, etc.

Many users have reactions similar to yours-"why can't they be used everywhere". The answer is "They are too complex". Yamaha could have hidden them from the users and only called them for their own styles and midis, but, to their credit, they did not.

Instead, they made them fully available on the instrument for use in style generation (the PSRs have a pattern copy function that works well with them) and have recently introduced a PC program (MegaEnhancer) that will incorporate them in a midi (with some of the sound effects included).

Confusing- yes, a notable technical advance- absolutely. If they had been able to perform the MegaEnhancer function in the PSR whenever a megavoice was specified, and made the PC version available with the Tyros introduction, then this issue would never have developed. But it has come later, outside the instrument, and with little user education.

The cutting edge of technology is often not comfortable. In this case, in my opinion, the minor inconveniences caused by the megavoice implementation issues are worth it.


Regards,

Michael


[This message has been edited by Michael P. Bedesem (edited 09-03-2004).]

There are a lot of very good guitar and bass voices that are suitable for live play, but not the megavoices.

Beakybird

Michael Bedesem's post explains everything there is to know about the megavoices. But also Yamaha explained this many times and if you have the manual it is explained too. The datasheet of Tyros and PSR3000 shows you exactly how the multisamples have been arranged across the keyboard.
Normally the velocity sensitivity only controls the volume (and perhaps filtering) of voices. Some effects, like the sweet! flute and some other voices, use velocity switching too, but in an easy controlable way.
You can argue if Yamaha should have programmed the megavoices in an other way. In fact they did that with the guitar Overdrive and Distoriton voices. You should be able to play this voice, because their buildup is simpler than for instance the Steel Guitar voice.
Overdive and Distortion voices:
C-B5: velocity= 1-55 is Open, 56-120 is Mute, 121-127 is Pick Harmonics.
Above C6 you have all the different effects for this voice.
Michel Voncken lets you hear these effects on the keyboard in his video.

Check the Data sheet of the PSR3000 and you can see why some megavoices are impossible to control by playing (mainly SteelGuitar and CleanGuitar).
With training you could try to play the following megavoices:
HiStringGtr, Overdrive, Distortion, 12StrGuitar, Fretless Bass and maybe the PickBass. (Note that Yamaha didn't use typical solo-instruments for megavoices, maybe that's why the Overdrive and Distortion voices have an easier buildup so they can be used in a solo).

Mind you, I didn't try it myself, but I draw my conclusion from the PSR3000 (and Tyros) Datasheet. But I also remember a mp3 played live(!) on Tyros, of someone playing a megavoice (it was probably the fretless Bass).

An advantage of playing these voices is, that you can use the special effects (above C6) too.

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drdalet

[This message has been edited by drdalet (edited 09-04-2004).]

Users(e.g. Simon Williams) have managed to play megavoices by restricting the velocity they use, but it is very difficult to do.

It is easier to make the best performance using one of the preset voices and then run it through MegaEnhancer to add the effects. You can then go back and edit the effects track.

Still a little confusing, especially if you never owned a Yamamha, but thanks to you guys, I have a little more knowledge about MegaVoices.

Larry

Sorry to differ with you guys on the ability in playing Mega voices live, but one most certainley can play them live and I have. I also play them live using my Fantom as the controller.

The key in playing them live is velocity. The differing layers of the Megas trigger at differing velocities.

If one goes into the menu and chooses differing maximum velocities say at 80 the megas will play like any other guitar on board. Of course that also means that the dynamics will remain constant when played, but they most definately can be played.

I put up some samples at one point of this to which there was very little interest or response. It is a pure myth that they CANNOT be played live, however, they do sound best in styles that take advantage of all the velocities within the sample.

In using it in a style though one has to realize that it is a midi sequence that uses the differing velocities. That same thing can be acheived in multi track recordings which essentially is what the style sequence is doing.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Hello.........Could someone send me some specific registrations or styles that utilize megavoices please? I understand how they work, but still am not sure how to apply them. I'm hoping I can analyze them if I have a working example. Thanks. -charley

coramjr@earthlink.net

Hi Terry.
Of course you are right, but there is no point in playing just one of the layers of a megavoice, without the special characteristics that 'make' it a MEGAvoice - I would prefer any of the normal voices instead.
When people say they want to play a megavoice LIVE, they want all the special sounds like strum and fret noise as well.
Otherwise there are some good sweet! and live! voices to use, right?
However I will try - once I have the PSR3K - to play around with the Overdrive and Distortion guitar voices, because I feel you can play them live without adjusting velocities. Maybe it helps to change the overall velocity response of the keyboard. You can then once in a while play notes in the upper octave to get the special effects as well.
BTW: I played on a PRS3000 and it played better for me when I set the velocity sensitivity to "soft1" instead of "normal".


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drdalet