I am so glad the forum is up and running again.Even though I don't post very often I still read it every day.Now that we are functional again,I hope someone can help.I recently bought the Edirol Hyper canvas and installed it on my computer.I want to use it with Van Basco to play midi files.Can any body tell me how to assign the hyper canvas instruments/sounds to van basco.I can use it with power tracks pro,asa there is a dedicated command to assign it for playback,but I can't make it work with Van basco.Thanks in advance. Terry.

Terry you will need a host program like Forte..Once everything is set up, all you have to do is click on a file and VanBasco will play using the Hyper Canvas...You will love the Hyper waves..
Frank R. and Rikki can also assist you..

Hi Fran,
just wondering if you also needed midi yoke to link vanbasco & forte, I did with my setup , but I was using live synth pro with soundfonts not hypercanvas as a soundsource.

Obviously you like your canvas is it the gm one?.

best wishes
Rikki





[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 08-22-2004).]

Rikki I did indeed need MidiYoke..I still can not find a driver to work with my internal sound card [Conexant AMC Audio],but I have a Digigram VX Pocket that works great and it has Digigram ASIO driver..

Thanks Fran,I will try to get forte.Is there any special procedure I need to apply when I install forte or does it authomatically set up for me. Thanks Terry,

Hi Fran,
ASIO4ALL was the only one I could get to work with my sigmatel soundcard in my laptop. I'd all but given up. Maybe it might work for you.
http://michael.tippach.bei.t-online.de/asio4all/

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Terry,
make sure you try the demo first. I had no problems with it when I tried it in my desktop so i purchased it. When I tried it in my laptop, I couldn't get it to work, until Frank pointed me in the direction of the ASIO4ALL driver. I can only assume that the drivers Forte requires ( wdm or asio ) were lacking in my laptop.
So try before you buy. http://www.brainspawn.com/products/forte/?op=download
best wishes
Rikki

Rikki, I tried ASIO4all, still no luck...I probably am better off using the VX Pocket it is a high quality sound card with it's own ASIO driver..So far it works great.
The only small problem is I need to run two out put cables, one from my PCMCIA sound card{VX Pocket} For Hyper Canvas, and another from my internal sound card [Conexant AMC Audio] for MP3 playback[WinAmp]...Actually it works out great because I can have a different mixer setting for each output, volume and EQ..

Rikki and Fran,Thanks for your help.I managed to get the Hyper canvas working in my pc but no joy with the laptop.I am trying the forte demo before I purchase.I downloaded asio4all and installed it on my laptop but I am just getting distorted playback. It may be the compatability between my sound card and the asio.If there are any others you can recommend I would be grateful.for now I will just keep plugging away and hope for the best.Terry

ASIO4all is just a patch to be able to get some kind of playback possible using the internal soundcard. If you want good sound without distortion you would have to invest into an external sound card (Firewire, USB or PCMCIA). There are no laptops with internal soundcards that can produce audio that sounds good. I recommend M-Audio firewire Audiophile(around $250). If there is no firewire connection on the laptop then use M-Audio Audiophile USB (around $200).
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.list&ID=mobileinterfaces

Hey..Hey.. Hey.. Guess what? I got my laptop internal sound card to work with ASIO4all..I must be getting better at solving problems in this"new" world..
By pinpointing the sample rate, I got rid of the digital garble and came up with a decent Hyper Canvas Playback,,with a latency of around 20ms..I am quite sure I can reduce it from there, but it is fine for now..

As Oleg has mentioned the internal sound card does not measure up to the sonic sound of my VX Pocket [pcmcia] sound card....but it ain't bad either...Way better than the MS GS wavetable that ships with XP..

So at this point I reached my expectations I wanted with Hyper Canvas[replace the MS GS waves]...Now I will fool around and see if I can set up a controller keyboard[D-70] to play the Hyper Canvas sounds with the right dynamics and latency[I will settle for 15ms]..

On the down side..hearing the Hyper Canvas thru my VX Pocket card sort of spoils my internal card's overall sounds..

I will listen thru my sound system tomorrow and see if it is suitable for my needs...I think it will be, if not I have the VX Pocket, and that is more than suitable..

Terry, when you try the ASIO4all driver set the sample rate at the max 1028, and see if you have the same success..

Hi Oleg,
actually I have a usb M Audiophile and I had all sorts of problems with distortion. I'm assuming I must have something set incorrectly.
I gave up after I got the ASIO4All driver working.
Actually the sound out of my laptop's soundcard is pretty good. I've got the audio out connected to the audio in on my clp170 piano.
I might try getting the audiophile set up again and see if I can hear much difference

best wishes
Rikki.

Hi Fran & Terry,
I had fiddle round with sample rates etc till I got mine to work also. Real fluke actually, because I really didn't have a clue as to what I was doing.

Fran, great to see you got it going.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fran Carango:
[B]Hey..Hey.. Hey.. Guess what? I got my laptop internal sound card to work with ASIO4all..I

Hi Terry,
these are another couple I came across, I tried the demo of console, but I haven't tried chainer.
http://www.console.jp/eng/ http://www.xlutop.com/html/chainer.html

I got the impression from Frank , that his favourite is Forte, that's why I persevered with it.

best wishes
Rikki

Rikki & Fran, I knew it would only be a matter of time to get it all to work. I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that the following can resolve distortion or quality issues:

* If the latency is set to high for what the soundcard can handle can lead to distortion. You should try for latency of 10ms or less for live performance. If you use a separate wavetable for the accompaniment you might beable to use latency that is higher then 10ms but the lead/melody voices will need to be that or less.

* The latency set in forte should be the same as that set by your soundcard software. Sometimes soundcards do not come with such software.

* Audio level produced by your software can be set to high and result in distortion. In forte you can set the overall audio levels as well as for individual moduls.

* Audio levels leaving your soundcard can be set to high for your preamp/amp.

With a professional level external soundcard you will realize the following:

Lower distortion
Lower noise
Higher dynamic range
Better/more features

I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-24-2004).]

Rikki, yes I strongly recommend forte. It is designed for live performances. The people who produce this product are committed to its continual enhancement. In fact, I will soon be getting the beta version 1.5 for testing. My guess is they will keep improving the buss structure and the midi effects area (e.g., Midifx in Sonar).

In addition, it has Audio in which you can manipulate via midi, e.g., pitch correction, vocal harmonizers, guitar distortion and so on.

Now as the feature list expands the complexity and reliability become more of a challenge. However, the producers work hard at resolving all such issues.

In fact, you may wish to touch basis with them and others on their discussion forums regarding some of your laptop issues. I believe there are number of people there who use the laptop for studio and live performances. I can only help in terms of generalities given I have no access to a laptop to test things on.

There are a number of VST and DX devices you can use with forte to capture audio, add effects and so on. http://www.tonewise.com/DirectiXer/ http://www.dspfx.com/VirtualPack/html/overview.html http://www.fxpansion.com/ http://www.midifo.com/ http://www.thedirectxfiles.com/plugins.htm http://tobybear.de/

If on the otherhand you want to work in the studio and produce midi sequences or finished audio products then other approaches such as Cubase & Sonar 3 may work better for you.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-24-2004).]

Some alternatives to the laptop that may deserve your attention are the following:
http://us.shuttle.com/SB83G5.asp http://sys.us.shuttle.com/ http://www.bsicomputer.com/

These are larger in size than the laptops but smaller than a regular PC. The plus is you can install the highest quality drives, soundcards, DVDs/RW and so on available in the market today. The shuttle can be purchased with liquid cooling and is very, very, very, very....quiet!!!!

I just thought I would point this out for those who have to much money.

Great to see you back Frank,
you've taught us well, but it would be awful having to muddle along on our own ( haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]

Rikki thanks for the info.Unfortunately I did something to the settings on my laptop and now I am not getting even distorted playback.I will get back at it tonight.I am also currently in the process of moving house,and I am doing 4 road gigs this week as well,so it will be slow going.I feel confidant that I will make it work eventually as I am really interested in the soft synth possibilities.I will continue to tinker.Do you remember how you adjusted the latency. I am new to this and need all the help I can get .Thanks Terry

Rikki, M-Audio soundcards usually have good drivers. There must be an issue with operating system you are using or your laptop configuration. I would give M-audio customer support a call or look on their web site for updated drivers. External soundcard should give you better sound and no audible latency. You should try again to install your USB soundcard.

When shopping around for a soundcard keep in mind the kinds of sample players you may wish to use. Some call for specific drivers such as GigaStudio's GSIF drivers. You will beable to accommodate most samplers with WDM and ASIO drivers. Don't use MME - high latency. I understand that Echo makes a good external soundcard for laptops.

The Echo Audio card is the Indigo IO model and it is a pcmcia cardbus card with stereo in/out (on 1/8 inch mini plugs) + volume control and will go up to 24/96. Costs about $180 USD from most online retailers + shipping.

I got one from Music 123 several weeks ago but it self destructed on power up and while I was waiting for the no hassle return to get back to them I changed my mind and ordered a TASCAM US-122 instead because for about $12 USD more than I had in the Indigo IO I felt I could get a LOT more functionality with the US-122. So far it has worked out well and, since my personal weapon of choice in the softsyth wars is GigaStudio, I think I did the right thing. I'm having both success and fun with GigaStudio 24, which came free with the US-122 (ie, since I'm having success I'm also having fun, LOL).

A friend of mine who has GigaStudio 160 came over and to the best of our ability to find out it seems that the only difference between the two is that Giga 24 1)only has 24 note polyphony (instead of 160), 2) it only has one port so it only has 16 midi tracks/channels, and 3) it doesn't have the 4 effects plugins that come with Giga 160. Other than those things, it seems to have all the other tools and capabilities, so for a FREE EXTRA with the sound card, it's pretty good, but it's obviously designed to get you to upgrade; meanwhile, I can find out what I think of GigaStudio and whether or not I want to get one of the new GigaStudio 3 versions.

Tom



------------------
Bigger is not always better

Rikki,
You mentioned that you found a piano soundfont that was very good. Could you elaporate? Is it as good as your Yamaha CVP? How would you rate it? Where did you find it?
Starkeeper

Hi Terry,
my settings are as follows
Audio Device : Sigma Tel Audio ( that's my brand soundcard)
Buffer Size 64
KS Buffers 2
The only item I have ticked is " force 16 bit samples ( buggy wdm driver work around.
Input & output delay is automatically set at 10.
Works on mine even if it might not be the optimum setting.

Best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TERRYC:
[B]Rikki thanks for the info.

Thanks Oleg,
I may give it another go, though i recently found some 2 to 3 octave controller type keyboards that are also soundcards. One of those might suit me better as far as portability goes. Not so much for realtime arranger playing ( bit small haa haa) but they could be used for recording melodies or step recording etc when I'm out and about.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oleg7:
[B]Rikki, M-Audio soundcards usually have good drivers.

Hi Starkeeper,
I think these are all freebies,
but I do remember having to donate $5 for one of the ones I've downloaded, can't remember which.

For playing solo piano midifiles, they sound great, for realtime playing I still prefer my clp170.

http://www.hum.aau.dk/~bovbjerg/piano4.html http://www.gsonic.com/maestro/ http://www.soundcreationsinc.com/splendid/index.html

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starkeeper:
[B]Rikki,
You mentioned that you found a piano soundfont that was very good.

Rikki, a buffer size of 64 seems very low, i.e., very low latency. A latency of 441 or 10ms or less is usually good enough. The lower the latency is the better will be the live playing experience. So at 64 you are doing very well indeed as long as you don't end up with crackles & pops.

Hi Frank,
well that sounds promising. I'm not getting crackles & pops.
Just out of interest, the fact that I can set it to such a low latency and not get crackles & pops, could that be due to the speed of the laptop's processor ( 3.06), or the amount of memory (500mb) or
the type of internal soundcard ( sigma tel) & the asio driver(asio4all),
or just sheer good fortune that I ended up with a combination that works.

All I basically remember you telling me ( or at least it came across as) was to get as much memory & as fast a processor as my budget would allow.

best wishes
Rikki





[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 08-25-2004).]

Rikki, the ability to achieve low latency has mostly to do with the quality of your soundcard and the associated drivers. The processor would play only a minor role. The processor, memory and hard drives become very important in terms of latency once you start using very large samples (Bardstown Bosendorfer Piano at 2.5GB) and where such samples are streamed from your hard drive as you play them.

Rikki, with respect to achieving good piano sounds I assume you use a good quality reverb and eqaulizer to optimize your audio equipment. If you are using external reverb and equalizer as effects plug-ins in forte I assume you have turned off the reverb & chorus in LiveSynth Pro to deactivate the soundfont built-in reverb and chorus. These built-in effects are not that good and worse would be you using two reverbs, etc.

If after all this you still can't get a good piano sound then you may have to stay with the one in your clp170 or consider purchasing one in another format and translating it to soundfont. Keep in mind such translations do lose a little in quality and features but they are not bad. I have no doubt that you can find significantly higher quality pianos then you currently have in your clp170. It is just a matter of searching it out and money.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-26-2004).]

Hi Frank,
thank you. I finding all this information very interesting.

Actually I don't have an external reverb or equalizer. I've just got the audio out of my laptop , plugged into the audio in of the clp. I've gotten used to hearing the sound coming via the piano's speakers.

I have a Harmon Kardon amp and a set of Tannoy speakers which I'll set up again once we move house.

It's not that the soundfont piano's don't sound good,it's probably just that I've gotten used to the clp piano sounds.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Rikki,

Rikki, by external effects I mean the DX or VST effects you plugin next to the sound module you are using in forte. In forte as you know you add a module, e.g., say LiveSynth Pro and then next to it you can install an effect, e.g., Reverb - Sonitus FX. If you don't have the LiveSynth Pro's Reverb and Chorus boxes checked and you did not install a reverb in forte then you could improve your piano sound by using something like Sonitus Reverb. Equalizers could also help depending on your speakers and sound system.

Furthermore, you can improve your accompaniment when using sYnerGi GS by adding 10 to 15% of chorus to the mix. I believe the author of sYnerGi GS provides some advice on this subject.

The plus of using the builtin effects of soundfonts together with the LiveSynth Pro's Reverb & Chorus boxes checked is that I believe they will accept the midi values from within the midi or style files. The minus is these reverbs & chorus are only of moderate quality (something equal to what you would find in today's arranger keyboards). Nonetheless, it is an area you can experiment with to further enhance your sound.

I notice you have Tannoy speakers. So do I. I have the 15" Tannoy Studio Monitors. Tannoy makes very good speakers.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-29-2004).]