Hi there!!!
My name is Gustavo, I'm from Argentina...
I have a problem...!!!
My old keyboard is dead... he past to better life some months ago... It was a Yamaha PSR-520... Yes a very old keyboard!!! And now I need to upgrade to a much better keyboard...like a Yamaha PSR-3000 or something like that...
I already know that the Casio MZ-2000 is out of production, but to tell the truth, here in Argentina all the keyboards are very very very overpriced... with very litle or almost no support from their respectives brands...
For example: the PSR-3000 is at U$$2000!!!
Motif ES7 is at u$$4000!!!???? Yes U$$4000!!!! Incredible isn't???
Ok, the thing is that the other day I was searching in several music stores asking about the PSR-3000... it's very hard to find it here!!! Believe me!! So, in one of the musical stores I found a Casio MZ-2000 for U$$1000 (I know that's really overpriced too!!!) but wait there's more!!! Of course this keyboard isn't new...is't a demo unit... with some details... for example one of the corners of the keyboard is a litle open, but this detail doesn't seems to be make by a drop off or a hit of somekind...When I saw this unit I must say that I was shocked because I never think to found any of these here in Argentina!!! I play it the Casio in the store and I must say that it seems that all worked very fine to me... The LCD was in perfect conditions and also the keyboard itself... except for the dust!!! and the detail in the corner!!! Well... after that in the store they say me that I could buy it for U$$900 (a U$$100 drop!), they offer me 1 year warranty for the Casio...
And about the PSR-3000 I can't find it for less than U$$2000... that's my $$$ limit too!!!
But this doesn't means that because I can spend U$$2000 in a PSR-3000 I don't want to save U$$1100 going for the Casio MZ-2000...
All I want is a good keyboard... and sadly the PSR-3000 and the Casio MZ-2000 are all my choices...I looked with others like Korg (PA-80, TRITON LE 76), Roland (EXR5, G-70), etc.. but believe it or not... those keyboard in the same category are from +2300 to 3400!!!!!! Yes! You probably may think that I'm crazy!!! But it's all true!!!
Maybe you are thinking WHY I have my doubts between a PSR-3000 (released in 2004) and a Casio MZ-2000 (released in 2000)... apart for the U$$1100 gap between them... That's because I read the specifications of the MZ-2000 and compared to the PSR-3000... the MZ wins with aftertouch, sinth features, and some other features, it's said that it can be tweaked for sound a lot better than the factory settings... but I don't know if the pianos and the other sounds can compete with the PSR 3000 sounds (I don't care about MEGAVOICES because aren't playable!)...even with the tweaks made...
A review in Keyboard Player Magazine puts me in this dilemma!!! Here I left you the following URL to read this review about the MZ-2000: http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/29200/Casio%20MZ-2000.pdf
Thanks for all!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow talk about expensive. Both units you mentioned are very good sounding keyboards and have very good features as well. You'll get fairly close to equal recording ability in both for songs and styles.

The PSR-3000 will have the edge with a few sounds since it now has "mega voices". It of course is more up to date with storage mediums as well. The MZ-2000 uses the standard floppy disk (common to the time).

The MZ has a few things over the PSR-3000. It has aftertouch, style converter, real-time sliders for editing and drawbar control, better key action, and wheel quality. The MZ's voice editing is beyond several top arrangers out there today as well.

Which board would work best for you is really something for you to decide. Me personally I'd like to have both Since they're so expensive and you want to save some money I'd suggest the MZ-2000 because as you stated it's covered for a year. I would also be a little questionable about that MZ because of the issue you mentioned.

If you can afford it a brand new PSR-3000 would be good too. At least you'd know the board was "factory fresh".

Squeak

The average used prices here in the USA...The MZ2000, $500-$650[very hard to find]..
The PSR3000 $1,200,,easily available..

I agree with Squeak's comments..I would like to add..The MZ2000 has a better key feel and full size keys..It also has great control of inputs for other sources[laptop] that can be assigned effects.

The draw bar organs and Leslie effects are superior on the MZ2000..The piano with slight edits are better on the MZ2000.
The MZ2000 is more playable to me...comfort wise , keys and association to the sounds.

The MZ2000 speaker system is also better than the PSR3000..

The PSR3000 will give you a vocal harmonizer, not available on the MZ2000.

Caution on damage to any keyboard...If they are giving you a real guarantee on the Casio, you may be okay..

Repairs and parts availability go to the Yamaha..

Dollar to dollar..here in the USA or where you are....the MZ2000 would be my choice....besides the MZ will probably retain most of it's current value...the PSR will not..

Ok!!! Thanks for the response!!! Mmmmm it's seems something strange...but apparently the MZ-2000 and PSR-3000 are very very close, so maybe I'm not VERY crazy....jejeje
You really think that the piano quality in the MZ-2000 can compete with the quality of the PSR-3000? Because if someone of you believe that...I will get one right now!!! What do you say??? Personally I don't care about Megavoices since aren't playable... Regarding to the Vocal Harmonizer I think very few people can sing with that...I'm not of that kind! But still I'm in doubt...!!!jejeje PSR-3000 or MZ-2000??? Who is the best???
Again thank you Squeak and Fran!!!

Actually the mega voices on the PSR-3000 are playable... That's one plus there for the Yamaha.

Sounds are always subjective. The MZ can produce some very nice piano sounds. The power in that MZ is in the synth engine and the effects section as well. With the synth engine on the MZ you can make voices comparable to Yamaha's sweet voices such as the "sweet flute". You can make a voice very close to this on the MZ-2000.

Too bad you can't get your hands on the PSR-3000, then you'd be able to make a better (personal) comparison.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-09-2006).]

I don't know. I realize that the Casio might be very good sounding for the money, but the Yamaha PSR3000 has so many classy sounding styles, plus you can fish around the internet for all the styles that the Tyros I and Tyros II have that aren't on the PSR3000, plus the PSR9000's styles, plus many many other well made styles from other keyboards. Most of these styles sound just as good as the onboard styles.

If you play accompaniments, the Yamaha is got to be a much better choice.

$2000 sounds like a rip-off. It sounds like you would be better off getting it from another country and forgoing the warranty (which is 90 days for labor anyway).

The successor to the PSR3000 will be coming out this summer.

Good luck.

Beakybird

I personaly belive the PSR-3000 is light years ahead of the Casio in nearly every category other then price. My suggestion, and I'm sure the same holds true with other performers, is to play both keyboards using a quality headset, then let your ears decide which is best.

Another major plus in the Yamaha colum is there are more third-party style files available for Yamaha keyboards than all others combined. Additionally, when you need support, this and a half-dozen other forums can provide you with immediate response to questions about every aspect of the 3000.

Good luck on whatever keyboard you decide upon,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

I'm with Gary here on a few things. Basically there are things the MZ-2000 can do that the PSR-3000 can't touch and vise versa. You have to really think about your personal needs and figure model will work best for what you want to accomplish.

Squeak

Larry and Gary have very good points..

As for styles , you won't be limited..The Casio has it's own style converter that absolutely works on Roland and Technics styles..I have my favorite Roland G70 styles loaded in my MZ.

On hands support...you will be limited..I think there are three of us at SZ that actually own or owned one[MZ]...and all three of us like the MZ2000.

As always..sounds are personal...I think the MZ competes with the Tyros ...with a lot of the sounds...and the PSR3000 organ[drawbars], doesn't match the MZ2000..

The safe bet[make most people happy], buy the PSR3000...then the PSR3100 next year...and the PSR4000 the following year..

Posted by: Fran Carango
-----------------------------------------
The safe bet[make most people happy], buy the PSR3000...then the PSR3100 next year...and the PSR4000 the following year..
------------------------------------------
That's funny

Fran does have some good points though. The MZ-2000 does have a style converter (built into) the keyboard. If I remember correctly too it even takes SMF's and can convert those to some rather unique styles as well.

Still I wouldn't mind having both. They both have their really good points and weak points, but together they'd be quite the dangerous duo.

Squeak

Ok! But What about the grand pianos??? Yamaha is known for make great piano samples... How the MZ-2000 compares to??

The presets sounds of the MZ2000 are not up to the Yamaha's .... Casio programmers only did half a job. If they had spent the time on the presets that Yamaha had, the MZ2000 would have gained much more of a following than it has. Editing is not too bad ..... once you get the gist of it. Once edited you do get a tremendous difference to the sounds.

The question is ....do you like tweaking,or would you prefer sounds that are already great?

The PSR-3000 sounds great "out of the box" .....and with a little judicious EQ'ing it sounds fantastic.

Drawbar organs are pretty good for both....but no where near a dedicated organ keyboard like a Roland VK-7/8.They are serviceable enough and sound pretty good when mixed in with the accompaniment.

Yamaha definitely has the edge in the chord fingering and chord recognition area,allowing for slash chords( i.e. Dm/G) which does not happen on the Casio; a bit of a disappointment, considering the rest of the instrument is very well done.

As been mentioned by Gary, the 3k has a wealth of user support,and lots of excellent styles are available.

The MZ2000 was dusty and damaged....I'd be very careful even with a warranty...if it needs fixing,and that takes time,you'll be without your keyboard.

The !Live Grand and other pianos in the 3k are far superior to the untweaked Casio which fairs a little better when touched up.

My opinion? I'd go with the PSR-3000.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

Keep this in mind because it's VERY important when demoing a MZ-2000 in a store.............

Make sure the EQ setting is activated. Out of the box the MZ-2000's EQ is set to (Flat) on default. This makes a HUGE difference when listening to the unit and playing it. Go under the Master EQ and listen to the preset EQ settings. You WILL hear the difference.

Sound quality-- even with the pianos are always subjective. I think I remember the MZ having a pretty good Stereo Grand Piano sample.

I don't agree with Ian that the programers did "half the job". They did a great job on the sounds, again the biggest "unknown" factor here for people demoing the unit is making sure the Master EQ is active.

As Ian stated the Yamaha PSR-3000 is set for the "out of the box" experience. It doesn't mean the MZ doesn't sound good though.

Here's the thing. The MZ's really in my opinion the voice programers DREAM ARRANGER KEYBOARD. You can tweek sounds well beyond the limits of the PSR-3000 with the MZ-2000.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-09-2006).]

Squeak,

You're correct about the MZ-2000 being a great voice programmer's keyboard and the sounds are more "tweakable" than the PSR-3000...in fact they would rival most dedicated synthesizers..

The important part of the matter,is that the prospective purchaser may not be a "tweaker" ,and prefer that the instrument sound great "as is".

I remember you used to have a MZ-2000,and I believe you sold it ....perhaps you still have your settings filed away.If someone was to purchase a MZ-2000,you could probably help them get the most out of it by sending them your settings(if you still have them).You could call them "squeak's tweaks". If you patent that name,I want a percentage!!!

There's no arguing that the MZ-2000 is a terrific keyboard,and I agree that piano sounds are very subjective as well....and I also remember the MZ-2000 having a very pleasing piano.

The wheels on the MZ-2000 are far better than those on the PSR-3000....

Yet,having tried both......I still recommend the Yamaha....probably because I am so pleased with mine.

Ian

Ian, I need to correct you on the Casio chord recognition..Actually the MZ is superior to the PSR3000..

You can turn on "on bass chord" that reads in any inversion other than root position.

Also the designers of the MZ went farther...you can turn on "6th chord" recognition...and another feature,,you can turn on "tension chord"..

The MZ2000 was very advanced[and not half done]..for it's time [2000].

The Casio stigma, is what hurt sales...with a street price more than $1,200...folks were a little skeptical....but boy were they wrong..it was and is a great board..

As you can see even experienced people as yourself[and myself to an extent], misjudged the Casio's capabilities..

Thanks Fran,
I read on a few sites that the design of the MZ-2000, was actually done by Technics, who used the very same chord recognition features, that you mentioned, on their higher end models.I also read the MZ-2000 was a Technics instrument,with the "Casio" name on it.
That would explain a lot of the other great features...some of which never ended up on later Casio models like the WK-series.Even the organ drawbars on the WK were not quite the same(down to only three graduations/drawbar)...nor was the style programmability.
I used Casio professional synthesizer/samplers in my band/studio work,years ago,...instruments like the CZ-1 and the FZ-1,and they were of superior quality...but a lot of people couldn't get by the name "Casio" and view them as a serious instrument maker.The MZ-2000 obviously suffered because of this as well.
They were (the MZ's)a bit notorious for noisy key action,which also was a similar problem on some Technics instruments...so maybe there was more to the relationship than was known to the general public.
Hopefully,if one was to buy a second hand MZ-2000,there wouldn't be a problem with servicing or parts,as Technics keyboards are out of business.
Ian

PS. I also found this quote by Squeak on the forum "I too used to have the MZ-2000 and I'm with Bluezplayer on that keyboards piano sound. It wasn't the worst, but sure left a lot to be desired."


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

I sometimes regret having sold my MZ. In response to the original poster's question, I will tell you that if my keyboard is going to be used mainly for solo entertaining / gigging, with heavy reliance on the styles, and I need little more than typical popular music sounds, then I'd choose the PSR3000. I agree that the 3k out of the box will sound better overall.

If I can rely a little less on the factory styles, or make my own, and I want to be able to customize my soundset, and don't mind doing a little tweaking to personalize my keyboard, then I'd choose the MZ.

I didn't care for the MZ's acoustic pianos, but AC piano isn't a big priority to me, so it didn't matter. Where I thought the MZ shined was in the organs ( big deal for me ), sax sounds, some of the guitars and synth based sounds.

The thing that made it stand out most to me was the depth yet simplicity of patch editing. Even my Motif ES pales in comparison when it isn't hooked up to a computer. When I had the MZ, I wasn't much into softsynths, and even a few years ago they weren't a viable alternative for a lot of people. Today, I use them more than hardware, and the MZ would have been a good partner to have with them.


AJ

I'm impressed, because I never thought that MZ-2000 could compete so tight with the PSR-3000 and even with other great keyboards out today.
I must confess that when I wrote the first post in this topic I was wishing that the MZ-2000 could be at least an option to the PSR-3000...but not only that! According to you guys it's even more than an old keyboard with some good features! For the price...I think it's the best choice around today in Argentina! Sorry!!!Only if you can find one!!! Very hard to find one here to!!! I'm going to buy it!!! By the way... Do you know where can I find some resources for the MZ-2000??? Things like tweaks, data and that kind of stuff. Thanks guys!!!

Hi Gustavo,
That's the real value of this forum...it gives a person a chance to make an educated decision based on so much great information from people who use these products in the "real world"

Good luck with your purchase.

Ian

Ian's right about this forum. It can really be a big help when deciding to buy a keyboard. There are so many members here with years of experience and it makes the whole buying process easier.

Ian,
I do remember saying that about the MZ's pianos. I remember the feeling I had about them as a whole (default) out of the box. I wasn't too impressed with those pianos. They didn't sound bad, but still sounded a bit like Casio to me only just brushed up a bit. I later found the power in the boards Master EQ and synth engine. What a delight!

I sold mine because one of my many boards at the time had to go. Just got married. Had a very small on campus college apartment with a new wife, all her things, mine, along with several keyboards, speakers, ect. Till this day I regret selling it Now they're hard to find.

Still, I'd love to have both the MZ-2000 and PSR-3000. With the MZ-2000 midi'd up to the PSR-3000....., man what a combo that would be.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-10-2006).]

I figured it was before you got into the EQ.I talked to a few friends here in Canada,and they said the same thing about the EQ making a big difference.
I'd love to have aftertouch on the 3k,and even considered a controller with 76 keys,but it would be too much of a hassle with portability.
Hopefully the new 3*** will have aftertouch...which is strongly rumored...it may even use the old Tyros keybed.

If you buy the MZ2000, and you do not have the manual....here is a link to the manual in PDF.

Maybe it would be interesting for others to read what the MZ2000 has to offer..
http://www.casionz.co.nz/Site/Pronto/Files/user_manuals/MZ2000%20USER%20MANUAL.PDF

Nobody has mentioned the polyphony of the two keyboards. I don't know what the Casio is but the Yamaha PSR3000 is 128. Can someone tell us what the Casio MZ polyphony is?
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

64 note poly.

Squeak

Much like the PA80, I almost never ( noticeably at least ) ran the MZ out of notes with it's 64 note poly. OTOH, I ran my PSR's and my original Motif out of notes consistently with Yamaha's 64 notes of Poly.

The MZ is truly one of the only boards I've ever had that I really regret not holding on to. I enjoyed it more ( if for nothing else than it's actual synth type sounds ) than any other hardware sample based synth I have ever played. OTOH, I can see why someone who does what Gary primarily does would prefer the PSR3000. For bread and butter performance sounds and styles right out of the box, I might too. My priorities are different right now though, and to me the most important sounds are the synth types and the organs. For me, no PSR can compete with the MZ and the abilty to edit and mangle sounds on the fly. Sadly, not even my Motif ES can.

The only other board I can truly say I miss is my Polysix. It surely wasn't the greatest analog synth on earth, ( kind of primitive in the filter and sound generation areas actually ) nor was it close to being the best analog I've ever played on, but it was my first, it was about as simple to navigate with and program as any analog could ever be, and it was a lot of bang for the buck. OTOH, the software version is so close that it easily replaces it, and for sonic quality even the freeware Synth 1 and Superwave P8 softsynths go way deeper with fatter and more interesting sounds.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-10-2006).]

One issue that seems to pass by due to everyone's excitement and enthusiasm over MZ-2000 is the service.

Gustavo has already stated from the beginning that there is " very little or almost no support " and this seems to be something that is being overlooked by the MZ's promoters.

The MZ-2000 is not only out of production,the company that produced it for Casio,Technics,is also not making keyboards any more!!!

No product is perfect,and will sooner or later require attention,and the parts to repair an MZ-2000 may become very scarce,especially under the conditions I have just stated,and the ones expressed by Gustavo in his opening statements.

While it may be nice to own a "classic" it does bring it's attendant problems,much like owning a rare classic car would present,and I think a prospective purchaser,should consider the whole package,not just the thrill of getting a unique instrument. Retro synths are nice,but the reason they are being produced as "software plug-ins"is because maintenance is very expensive and parts are difficult to find.I imagine,finding parts for an MZ-2000 in Argentina would be more than difficult,especially considering it's Technics parenthood.

I think this is a consequence of buying and owning an MZ-2000,as wonderful as it is, that can't be stressed enough because of the very real potential of not being able to have it fixed,warranty or not.....and once out of warranty,the issue of maintenance/repair will be very expensive,judging by the outrageous purchase price of keyboards in Argentina.

At least the PSR-3000 is still in production,and Yamaha has a great history of maintaining parts availability.

Yeah,the MZ-2000 is nice.......but the Yamaha is truly much more practical in every way........better to have "bread and butter " than "burnt toast" that you can't eat.

Ian.

Ian, I find myself agreeing with you on the service/parts point..
If the keyboard represents your "bread and butter" instrument...Ten years down the road, after this purchase....I still want the MZ2000..It could very well be worth every penny you pay today,,,10 years from now...I don't believe the PSR3000 will retain the same value[because of so many newly released PSR models that are on the horizon]..

I am curious, where did you find info that Technics built/designed the MZ2000...It is possible, but not probable.....I can't imagine the conflict of interest between two major companies...Panasonic and Casio..

It would be interesting to me to read about this report...true or false..

I agree with your points as well Ian and Fran. The thing is though, once a model is out of production, while it is possible to have repairs done, it also seems to be very costly. This was my experience with both the PSR740 and my Korg M1 before it.

So today, yes it is more practical to have the PSR3000 in that regard. No argument from me on that. A couple of years or so down the road, when it has long become old news and 2 generations of PSR's have surpassed it, pretty much the same boat as the MZ I think.

Fran, I've heard the same thing about the MZ being based on the Technics K5000. I have no idea whether this is actually true, or whether perhaps it might be believed because the 2 boards do share some similar features, plus the ability of the MZ to import and use Roland and Technics styles.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-11-2006).]

Ian wrote: "I'd love to have aftertouch on the 3k,and even considered a controller with 76 keys,but it would be too much of a hassle with portability."

I have a 3k hooked up to a Fatar SL-880 controller and have never got the 3k to receive aftertouch data, even though all midi channels are set to receive it. I remember reading someone else on here with the same findings, so this may not be possible with the 3k sadly.

Carrie

Fran and AJ,and, of course,Gustavo,
You must understand I am not trying to say one keyboard is better than the other in terms of features/sounds etc.
That's a personal issue.
My concern is the integrity of the information I pass on to our friend Gustavo.
I can't prove the Casio/Technics connection(I will try and find more information,but it isn't readily available) but I have read reviews that "almost confirm" this issue.I believe in the adage,"where there is smoke...there is fire"
If Gustavo were here in Canada,or in the UK or USA where there were lots of Technics and MZ-2000 keyboards that could be cannibalized for parts,than I would tell him to go ahead with the Casio purchase.
The power of Yamaha parts/service was demonstrated to me several years ago when a friend of mine called me about a problem he had with a Yamaha D-85 Electone organ,which was made in 1980 and was at least 15 years old at the time.
It needed components that the local dealer did not have,but through Yamaha Canada,I was able to get the OE parts from Japan,and the cost wasn't even outrageous (It did take a few weeks) .Now,that's pretty good... and one of the reasons I am pro Yamaha.
I have witnessed other people get PSRs and DX7 parts the same way....so it wasn't a one-off thing.
Maybe Technics was beginning it's downward period when it shared the technology with Casio.
I remember the big fiasco when people found out several years ago that Hohner was using Casio portable keyboards in their line...albeit the panels and the name was altered slightly.A German company with Japanese engineering!!!.
Radio Shack uses Casio stuff as well, under the" Realistic" name.
The name of the game is big business, fierce competition,and profits!!!!
The bottom line is..... will our friend Gustavo,be able to have the MZ-2000 repaired,and within a reasonable time? Will the store provide him with a replacement keyboard while his is being fixed(they should offer this in the warranty if they have that much faith in the product.But they seem to be "gougers" ,at least by the ridiculous prices they charge.
It is already "used" and slightly damaged...not good signs,and even worse,where in Argentina,the product is very scarce....no support is available.
I love old gear,and would love to still have some of the keyboards I used to own,but maintenance and parts and poor reliability(even when new) made keeping them too much of a burden.
A.J. is correct,the ability to have these instruments in "software" is terrific, and a person can have ARPs, Moogs and Yamaha CS-80's....all incredible sounding,and unreliable or too large and heavy keyboards that would be a nightmare to maintain in hardware form.
What will keep the PSR-3000 a viable instrument ,long after it's superseded by newer PSR models, is Yamaha's ability to provide parts and service(even after the warranty is over) for many years after the purchase.
The PSR-3000 may not be the perfect keyboard,but there is no denying it is an outstanding value.
I wish Gustavo the best of luck with whatever ends up on his keyboard stand.
Ian

Yes guys that's the main problem for me...
the warranty and labor...in the store said me that they give me 1 year. It's a big and known store, it's there since 1984...
But after all the issue in the corner of the MZ-2000 is my greatest problem...I can't get out of my mind!!! That's because I'm going to left an URL to a picture where I marked exactly the issue... http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd2/16838/MZ-2000PICTURE.JPG
I know that's not the best example picture of all times!!!jejeje But at least now you know exactly where the issue is...
To give more information I will try to explain:
In that place the plastic is a little open...it's not broken...
It's blended...I touched it with my fingers and it doesn't feel like as was forced with anything to open it...
It's like as somekind of external source of heat had done it...like a lamp or something like that.
The keyboard except that issue is in perfect shape and works great.
What do you think??? Could be a factory issue? Do you know if in that exactly place in the keyboard is something that could generate such kind of heat, like a power source or something?
At first I thought that maybe this issue could be generated by extremely use!!! Like left the keyboard powered on for hours and hours in the store ready for demonstration... Honestly I don't know.
Thank you guys!!!

Here is my take on the Technics/Casio mystery..
I think no way is Technics involved with the design of the MZ2000...There are no common features of the two companies..
First Casio has incorporated the synths of their mid 80's...the CZ series, with most of the synth design from the CZ1[86],,the best of the series...it also includes features of the VZ series...Technics does not use any of these features in their own line...how can they design for another brand?

The other designs are from the CT [top models of Casio]..

The MZ2000 sound technology is continued in the current WK series..


All of the above confirm to me that Technics[Panasonic] had nothing to do with the development of the MZ2000.

If the question arises that Casio had influenced/designed/built Technics keyboards...I would find it more believable[Casio has never manufactured for Technics]..


The only common association...Third party software company, Technote, developed software for Casio, Technics, and Roland[probably others too]..

Parts are still available for the MZ[from Japan], and a lot of the electronics are generic..

That's my view....

BTW...that crack/opening in that area of the MZ, is no big deal...Do the pitch and mod wheels work?
If so, don't worry about that damaged corner...

Which ever board[MZ or PSR] you buy, you will be okay...

My opinion is,if the 2 boards are that close in comparison, then I would buy the MZ, it will leave you with $1100 in your pocket,and you have a keyboard that will give you a lot of use and maybe if you sell it in a couple of years time you should get half of your money back,and by then Yamaha will have brought out another board which will be even better than the 3000, easy,mike

Gustavo,
Fran is right...the issue with the defect on the MZ-2000 looks to be very minor....if in doubt,ask if an independent technician can examine it.
Leaving a newer keyboard on for an extended period of time is much less damaging than turning it on and off many times.
The MZ-2000 is probably your best bet.


Fran,
This was an earlier post by you....
" I thought it would be interesting to post our feelings of the Arranger keyboards we each owned...
Casio MZ2000,,First impression was okay, but did not like overall.. "

Your take on the Technics/Casio connection is only a guess,and based on assumptions.There are way more similarities than differences.
The MZ-2000 was a very different product for Casio,and very much like a Technics KN series,which quite possibly,were the reasons that led very many people to believe there was a one time connection.Remember,the MZ was one time model for Casio.The WK series,although very nice, are not in the same league as the MZ-2000.

Ian

Ian, my quote was true
" I thought it would be interesting to post our feelings of the Arranger keyboards we each owned...
Casio MZ2000,,First impression was okay, but did not like overall.. "

Coming from my preference Roland products, I decided to use my Roland E-600 instead of the MZ, for smaller jobs..They are similar..speakers , mic with effects,drawbar organ, floppy disk, sequence playback, good to great sounds, and the E-600 had a vocal harmonizer...I had the same money in each of them..So I decided to use the E-600..After I got back the MZ2000, and no longer have the E-600..I played around in more detail and found some features I really liked[stereo inputs, by passable/ and with effects...The edit ability of sounds, and the flexibility of the drawbar organs/effects..]..It fills my need for the purposes I had in mind NOW..

Ian , I do not see any similarity MZ to the KN5000/KN6000..

Can you enlighten me?

All of the features of the MZ can be found in prior Casio lines..

The KN used the horrible composite memory system that wasted a lot of memory..If they improved this with[supposibly] design of the MZ...why would they revert back to the same system with their own KN6500 and KN7000?

Sorry, you can't convince me yet...Give me what you got!!

Fran,

I fail to see why I should try and convince you about the Technics/Casio when I am not completely convinced myself.

I do question your statements below,however,

" Ian, I need to correct you on the Casio chord recognition..Actually the MZ is superior to the PSR3000..You can turn on "on bass chord" that reads in any inversion other than root position.Also the designers of the MZ went farther...you can turn on "6th chord" recognition...and another feature,,you can turn on "tension chord"..

No where in the MZ-2000 manual (you provided the PDF web site for it) does it mention any of these modes.

The MZ-2000 uses the same old limited chord recognition system as the rest of the line and Casio has not progressed beyond this,even in the new ones. Full Range...Fingered......Casio Chord.

This is very much inferior to the PSR-3000 which offers 7 types . Even the old PSR-2700/1700 had "On Bass" back in 1993....(it actually began on the PSR-SQ-16 which was introduced even earlier)

The organ drawbar mode in the MZ2000 is different ..... it provides 8 drawbar positions(like a Hammond) as opposed to three positions in the WK series...a step backwards in my opinion.

Ian

Ian, I am never wrong!!![maybe seldom]..Page 43 and page 114..

I see....is this mode availailable while playing "live" or only after a recording?

Also,are these exact types of fingering modes avalialable on the WK series...or any other model?
If the answer to the second question is "no",than that would make the MZ-2000 very different from the other Casio keyboards,and more in line with something from Technics.
Ian

Someones selling your baby! http://cgi.ebay.com/Casio-MZ2000-keyboar...1QQcmdZViewItem

I am already bidding on it...I don't need another one, but I know how much the adapter cost, manual etc...I have to take it if is too low to pass it up...
If another SZ member is interested in it , I will pass, if it helps you get a good deal...Keep in mind the value in the US is $500-$650...

Please let me know if anyone here is going to bid...so I don't get in your way..

Hi there!!!
I'm pleased to anounce that yesterday I bought the Casio MZ-2000!!!
What an amazing keyboard!!! So many options, general good sound, but can be really improved!!! I still learning how to operate this keyboard (I repeat many many options), sometimes I feel that anything can be done with this machine. Thank guys!!! You really help with this!!! If I never asked you guys I probably spended U$$2000 in the PSR-3000 (a great keyboard too!)but for the money is a real value!!! I finally saved more than U$$1200!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you again!!!
One more thing... someone post here, I don't remember who... that this keyboard shares many things with Technnics keyboards technology, can you tell me where you read those reviews???

Congrats on the MZ....Enjoy the keyboard for what it is...the Flagship Casio...Casio's best.....Don't be concerned with this so called link to Technics....it doesn't appear to be true[and that can be a good thing]...Good luck.

Hi Gustavo,

The MZ-2000 is a great buy,and I congratulate you on your purchase,and I'm sure you'll be more than satisfied with the instrument.

I believe the verdict is still out on the Casio/Technics relationship,although Fran seem to be certain there isn't one.My record of being right is not as good as his,so I have to try harder,although I have come to believe the MZ-2000 was distinctly different from all other Casios (especially in the synth programming and accompaniment sections). I have thoroughly checked this out ,and ,although I wouldn't bet my house on the Technics connection,the MZ is a very different product for Casio.

To me, the accompaniment section,which on the MZ-2000 is unique to this instrument ,is far ahead of other (even newer!)Casios(and the PSR-3000 as well,according to Fran!) is the most important clue to the MZ maybe having a connection with Technics.

Perhaps someone else more knowledgeable about the MZ-2000 and Casios in general can shed more light on this. Here is a web address where one reviewer(the first one) finds the MZ-2000 similar in many ways to the Technics KN series.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Casio/MZ_2000-1.htm'tl

I agree with what Fran has said,...".Enjoy the keyboard for what it is...the Flagship Casio...Casio's best.....Don't be concerned with this so called link to Technics...."

Here is a site that may help you,it is a Yahoo Group for Casio users and is free to join.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/casio_keyboards/
Best of luk!
Ian

Gustavo,congrats on your new board, I reckon you made the best choice, did you take squeaks advice and adjusted the EQ,s ?if not you will have a better sounding keyboard when you do,mike

I am looking at the MZ-2000 as a backup board, and if it coverts Technics styles, it is the only non-Technics instrument I know of to do this. I suppose I could buy the EMC Universal, but that wouldn't help.
I have a KN7000 now, but it won't last forever.

Bernie

Bernie are you interested in bidding on the MZ[ebay]? Above link..
If so, I will pass on it...You may get it for a good price..

Fran,

I was thinking about bidding on this but only if it could be had for ridiculously cheap (Say $200 or less). I've been following this thread and got kind of excited about the MZ2000 when I saw it on E-Bay. I figured that in due time that bid price would be well over $300, so I thought I'd wait and see before I jumped on it. My problem is I can't afford what I really want, this might be a good compromise for a while. But who CAN afford what they really want, ?

I say it's fair game if you want it. What do you think a reasonable ending bid for this might be?

I don't think the dealer knows what the MZ is worth..I am thinking it will probably sell for under $300..It depends on how aggressive bidders get...That is why I will stay out of it ...If it is in the $200-$250 range it would be foolish not to buy it[and I don't need another]..That is why I would hope someone from SZ would grab it...Let me know if you plan on bidding...The last five minutes of the auction is the time to bid if you want it...I get every item I want this way..

I agree. If the dealer knew what this thing was worth, I think he could have sold the description of it much better. I've done the same thing, bidding on trumpets and horns. I'll wait until there is 5 or 10 minutes left, if it's something I want bad enough. I'm tempted to do that. I will let you know for sure what I decide.

I wonder if it would hurt to make this guy an offer of $200 or so to take it off e-bay for immediate sale. Might be a way to see how much he really thinks he's going to get for it?? Or it might encourage him to a little more research?

Go for it...I have offered to buy at a price and remove it from auction...Ask the question through EBay..this way you won't get flagged..He will be requried to pay the Ebay charges..

Hey Fran... You have to think that link is Dated... No Psr2000 even... PSR740 going for $700+ range...

Yes sir, I noticed it has not been updated for a year..

Hi Fran
I will go for. I don't expect to steal it, but will pay up to fair market value. Thank you for your courtesies.

Bernie

I started thinking that since I have been spoiled by USB,SD card, and scrolling Karaoke lyrics, I may find it coming up short. I am not used to making changes on the fly. There are 64 reg slots, and a floppy. That's it for storage.

I really don't want to knock someone else out of the box that would be more than happy with it, and can't afford a T2 or something. I am not sure yet.

Bernie the MZ2000 has your scrolling lyrics..

Thinking I might get in too.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-13-2006).]

I'm the lead bidder right now guys.. whoopee...LOL. I don't know how far I'm willing to go though so if your really want this, don't back off on my account.


If I didn't need a new laptop I'd probably be willing to part with a little more. This time around, I think I'm a bit more educated as to what I think I will need inside my laptop, but it's probably going to cost me..

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-15-2006).]

AJ, are you poison poet?

I'll stay away...

Yes Fran I am. Thanks. Keep an eye open though if you really want it. I know it's probably worth what you stated earlier in the thread. I'm just not 100% sure yet if I'll be the one that goes there.

AJ

AJ, I was interested if it was a steal[ I couldn't resist]..Since I don't need another, I decided to let you guys have it...hopefully , you can get it at a bargain bid.

BTW..Did I tell you guys Casio wanted $227 to special order the Casio AD-16 adapter..

$227 ? I'm not sure I even think of the words that would do my opinion of that any justice. Well, I can think of 'em I guess, but I don't necessarily wanna put them here and get banned.

Seriously, if I get another MZ and need a replacement adaptor, I'd have to look at the specs and go with a different option for replacment, even if that meant basically building part or all of it
myself.

AJ

AJ, I used the Yamaha PA-300 adapter..same specs..Gary told me it would work...I borrowed UD's...It worked...I ordered a new one from George Kaye....and than located the missing Casio Adapter...Now I have a Yamaha PA-300 adapter, available...new in the box....anyone?

That'sood to know Fran. I have so many adapters and power supplies here ( I never seem to discard any of them ) that it's likely I'd find something right here that would work.

4 hours to go on Ebay.. and holding my breathe that it doesn't get bid up too high.

AJ

AJ, a reminder, you have 21 minutes left in the MZ auction...work it out in the last minute[I have it down pat, I usually get it done in the last 10 seconds]..Good luck..

Bernie and RB ..are you guys on the same page...are you guys working together and not against each other,,,Communication?

Congrats to AJ...a new MZ2000 owner again..

AJ it wasn't meant to be a steal...but I think it's worth the money you paid...

My cousin at WestGate Music wanted me to thank you guys for running the bid up in the last two minutes.....[Just kidding]..

Thanks Fran.

I sat and thought about it last night and all morning today, and figured about 500 or so was about as far as I wanted to go, so I guess I came in pretty close. I also guessed that anything much less than that probably wouldn't get it done. Not bad I guess for my first ever Ebay transaction.

Well, this officially takes me out of the running for a new arranger, for this year anyway. They're all great boards I'm sure, but for the amount of use I'd get from them, I'm just not interested in spending what the T2, G70, or PA1x go for. I'm just not enough of an arranger player to justify the expense. Perhaps if the new Ketron is a successor to the XD9, or a successor to the PSR3000 comes along, and I like it enough, I'll climb " back into the race ".

I'm already preparing to get back to working on rebuilding my soundfont. Aside from having great organ and synth sounds for an arranger, I always thought that the MZ was the most efficient of any arranger for modifying and making new styles. At least I like it as lot better than the PA80 or PSR's in this regard.

Now I can focus on using my next laptop strictly as a sound module, with the MZ also capable of serving as the midi controller and arranger data playback machine. For as much as I wanted OMB to work out for me, ( and it does to a point ), it's a lot easier when I'm not trying to run both an arranger app and control sound module's from within the same computer.

AJ

And being able to run your laptop into the Casio stereo inputs is another plus...

That is how I am using my MZ with my trio at the Jersey shore..

I was in once to $401. I wanted it, but not as badly AJ. At least one of our guys got it.
Congrats, AJ

Bernie

Bernie, that would make you Duke62music...Right?

Congrats AJ. The organs on the MZ are really good.
Starkeeper

You got it, Fran

Bernie

Thanks Guys, and a special thanks to those who did not make me spend an arm and a leg for it. Like Fran said, not a bargain basment price, but I think I paid a good price anyway.

Starkeeper, I totally agree about the organs. I know it won't be mistaken for a real B3, but it does a pretty good job there nonetheless. I demoed it the first time at a music store in NY city soon after it was released. I started hacking around on it like I thought I was Emerson or something, doing some Brain Salad Surgery stuff, and I was so impressed with the organs that it easily swayed my decision to buy it. Unfortunately, I had to part ways with my first one in order to make room for ( Translated: pay for ) my PA80.

After thinking this through though, I am pretty glad that the "Great Silver Beast" is coming home again. During the great debate here over how we deal with brand name logos on our keyboards' rear ends, I thought of making a logo cover with the same name, as it had been pointed out by several other musos that no serious kb players show up to jobs with a Casio. I guess most of the guys saying that had never heard of the CZ5000 or the FZ1, both of which were used by several major recording acts. I chose not to though, as I didnt want to have to keep explaining that "Great Silver Beast" was not the name of my act. OTOH, more of my hair is getting grey these days, so maybe now it would be a good fit, or at the very least a cool name for a synth band.

AJ