Ok! But What about the grand pianos??? Yamaha is known for make great piano samples... How the MZ-2000 compares to??

The presets sounds of the MZ2000 are not up to the Yamaha's .... Casio programmers only did half a job. If they had spent the time on the presets that Yamaha had, the MZ2000 would have gained much more of a following than it has. Editing is not too bad ..... once you get the gist of it. Once edited you do get a tremendous difference to the sounds.

The question is ....do you like tweaking,or would you prefer sounds that are already great?

The PSR-3000 sounds great "out of the box" .....and with a little judicious EQ'ing it sounds fantastic.

Drawbar organs are pretty good for both....but no where near a dedicated organ keyboard like a Roland VK-7/8.They are serviceable enough and sound pretty good when mixed in with the accompaniment.

Yamaha definitely has the edge in the chord fingering and chord recognition area,allowing for slash chords( i.e. Dm/G) which does not happen on the Casio; a bit of a disappointment, considering the rest of the instrument is very well done.

As been mentioned by Gary, the 3k has a wealth of user support,and lots of excellent styles are available.

The MZ2000 was dusty and damaged....I'd be very careful even with a warranty...if it needs fixing,and that takes time,you'll be without your keyboard.

The !Live Grand and other pianos in the 3k are far superior to the untweaked Casio which fairs a little better when touched up.

My opinion? I'd go with the PSR-3000.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

Keep this in mind because it's VERY important when demoing a MZ-2000 in a store.............

Make sure the EQ setting is activated. Out of the box the MZ-2000's EQ is set to (Flat) on default. This makes a HUGE difference when listening to the unit and playing it. Go under the Master EQ and listen to the preset EQ settings. You WILL hear the difference.

Sound quality-- even with the pianos are always subjective. I think I remember the MZ having a pretty good Stereo Grand Piano sample.

I don't agree with Ian that the programers did "half the job". They did a great job on the sounds, again the biggest "unknown" factor here for people demoing the unit is making sure the Master EQ is active.

As Ian stated the Yamaha PSR-3000 is set for the "out of the box" experience. It doesn't mean the MZ doesn't sound good though.

Here's the thing. The MZ's really in my opinion the voice programers DREAM ARRANGER KEYBOARD. You can tweek sounds well beyond the limits of the PSR-3000 with the MZ-2000.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-09-2006).]

Squeak,

You're correct about the MZ-2000 being a great voice programmer's keyboard and the sounds are more "tweakable" than the PSR-3000...in fact they would rival most dedicated synthesizers..

The important part of the matter,is that the prospective purchaser may not be a "tweaker" ,and prefer that the instrument sound great "as is".

I remember you used to have a MZ-2000,and I believe you sold it ....perhaps you still have your settings filed away.If someone was to purchase a MZ-2000,you could probably help them get the most out of it by sending them your settings(if you still have them).You could call them "squeak's tweaks". If you patent that name,I want a percentage!!!

There's no arguing that the MZ-2000 is a terrific keyboard,and I agree that piano sounds are very subjective as well....and I also remember the MZ-2000 having a very pleasing piano.

The wheels on the MZ-2000 are far better than those on the PSR-3000....

Yet,having tried both......I still recommend the Yamaha....probably because I am so pleased with mine.

Ian

Ian, I need to correct you on the Casio chord recognition..Actually the MZ is superior to the PSR3000..

You can turn on "on bass chord" that reads in any inversion other than root position.

Also the designers of the MZ went farther...you can turn on "6th chord" recognition...and another feature,,you can turn on "tension chord"..

The MZ2000 was very advanced[and not half done]..for it's time [2000].

The Casio stigma, is what hurt sales...with a street price more than $1,200...folks were a little skeptical....but boy were they wrong..it was and is a great board..

As you can see even experienced people as yourself[and myself to an extent], misjudged the Casio's capabilities..

Thanks Fran,
I read on a few sites that the design of the MZ-2000, was actually done by Technics, who used the very same chord recognition features, that you mentioned, on their higher end models.I also read the MZ-2000 was a Technics instrument,with the "Casio" name on it.
That would explain a lot of the other great features...some of which never ended up on later Casio models like the WK-series.Even the organ drawbars on the WK were not quite the same(down to only three graduations/drawbar)...nor was the style programmability.
I used Casio professional synthesizer/samplers in my band/studio work,years ago,...instruments like the CZ-1 and the FZ-1,and they were of superior quality...but a lot of people couldn't get by the name "Casio" and view them as a serious instrument maker.The MZ-2000 obviously suffered because of this as well.
They were (the MZ's)a bit notorious for noisy key action,which also was a similar problem on some Technics instruments...so maybe there was more to the relationship than was known to the general public.
Hopefully,if one was to buy a second hand MZ-2000,there wouldn't be a problem with servicing or parts,as Technics keyboards are out of business.
Ian

PS. I also found this quote by Squeak on the forum "I too used to have the MZ-2000 and I'm with Bluezplayer on that keyboards piano sound. It wasn't the worst, but sure left a lot to be desired."


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-09-2006).]

I sometimes regret having sold my MZ. In response to the original poster's question, I will tell you that if my keyboard is going to be used mainly for solo entertaining / gigging, with heavy reliance on the styles, and I need little more than typical popular music sounds, then I'd choose the PSR3000. I agree that the 3k out of the box will sound better overall.

If I can rely a little less on the factory styles, or make my own, and I want to be able to customize my soundset, and don't mind doing a little tweaking to personalize my keyboard, then I'd choose the MZ.

I didn't care for the MZ's acoustic pianos, but AC piano isn't a big priority to me, so it didn't matter. Where I thought the MZ shined was in the organs ( big deal for me ), sax sounds, some of the guitars and synth based sounds.

The thing that made it stand out most to me was the depth yet simplicity of patch editing. Even my Motif ES pales in comparison when it isn't hooked up to a computer. When I had the MZ, I wasn't much into softsynths, and even a few years ago they weren't a viable alternative for a lot of people. Today, I use them more than hardware, and the MZ would have been a good partner to have with them.


AJ

I'm impressed, because I never thought that MZ-2000 could compete so tight with the PSR-3000 and even with other great keyboards out today.
I must confess that when I wrote the first post in this topic I was wishing that the MZ-2000 could be at least an option to the PSR-3000...but not only that! According to you guys it's even more than an old keyboard with some good features! For the price...I think it's the best choice around today in Argentina! Sorry!!!Only if you can find one!!! Very hard to find one here to!!! I'm going to buy it!!! By the way... Do you know where can I find some resources for the MZ-2000??? Things like tweaks, data and that kind of stuff. Thanks guys!!!

Hi Gustavo,
That's the real value of this forum...it gives a person a chance to make an educated decision based on so much great information from people who use these products in the "real world"

Good luck with your purchase.

Ian

Ian's right about this forum. It can really be a big help when deciding to buy a keyboard. There are so many members here with years of experience and it makes the whole buying process easier.

Ian,
I do remember saying that about the MZ's pianos. I remember the feeling I had about them as a whole (default) out of the box. I wasn't too impressed with those pianos. They didn't sound bad, but still sounded a bit like Casio to me only just brushed up a bit. I later found the power in the boards Master EQ and synth engine. What a delight!

I sold mine because one of my many boards at the time had to go. Just got married. Had a very small on campus college apartment with a new wife, all her things, mine, along with several keyboards, speakers, ect. Till this day I regret selling it Now they're hard to find.

Still, I'd love to have both the MZ-2000 and PSR-3000. With the MZ-2000 midi'd up to the PSR-3000....., man what a combo that would be.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-10-2006).]