...and with these comments...

- You are a songwriter. Styles jockey your imagination and it spurs your creativity.

- You find styles here and there and when you find a good one, it's like Christmas.

- You note that 99% of the styles you listen to are not suitable for your needs.

- You note that supposedly, modern top-end keyboards have styles that shine on those keyboards.

- You are interested only in contemporary music in the country, pop, folk and rock genres.

Okay, $10,000. YOU MUST SPEND THE MONEY, there is no other option. Styles sounding good is the key... not features for live playing at gigs or other features... just styles that sound good. (If a good style otherwise sounds like crap on the board, your brain will dismiss it.)

What would you buy? Two keyboards? One keyboard and a ton of purchased styles? Three keyboards? Five keyboards? Ketron Midjay and four keyboards and some purchased styles? What? It's like it's a corporate budget. You WILL spend the $10,000 on SOMEthing. What would you buy and if it's keyboards, what models?


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-04-2006).]

If I had nothing and I should make a start now I bought for the money which I could spend; The E80, the Tyros 2, the Midjay with all the Ketronstyles and as much as possible the best styles for these three from third parties.
And I should download the free Mart Weeho-styles and a few more.And I when I did not spend all the money I should buy a box of very good cigars too.

Find three really good, but starving, musicians. If gigs are scarce in the area, you could probably rent their services for about a year, maybe longer if you furnish the booze. Nashville might be a good place to start. Failing that, try getting a Synthzone member that just went broke or was thrown out of the house by their spouse, for buying a top-end arranger keyboard. Plus, this approach will help musicians rather than Korg, Roland, or Yamaha's bottom line.


chas

If I had $10,000 I'd still keep my T2 and then give the rest to the guys who did the internal syles and IDC ones to create my own custom styles just for me. Then again I think I'd pocket the $10,000 do a runner and create the styles myself

What's an "IDC" style?

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

It's the Internet Direct connection. There were about 50 new T2 styles available to purchase and download last time I checked on there. It can be accessed from inside the T2 by connecting it to your PC using the free wireless adapter.

Bill,

Over the years I have archived more than 35,000 styles, of which many are very good, some are exceptional and a select number are outstanding. Each time I came across a new batch of style files it was just like getting a new keyboard, but with two exceptions--I didn't have to shell out a dime, and I didn't have to spend weeks learning a new operating system.

Early on, when using keyboards that required carrying lots of floppy disks, accessing third party styles was a challenge to say the least. Now, with thousands of quality styles stored on the USB Thumb Drive access is easy, instantaneous, and there's never a question of what song goes with the style because they've been renamed to song titles.

My advice, keep the $10-grand and put it towards your retirement, which for most of us is not that far away. Sure, we would all like to continuine performing until the day we die, but the human body has the tendency to not allow this fantasty to become reality. Eventually, your voice gives out, timing falls off, and the equipment seems to double in weight for every year you work past age 65. Ain't it amazing how the mind keeps making appointments the body cannot keep!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Gary, you're not playing fair.

I said "You WILL spend the $10,000 on SOMEthing." I have edited to now also say "YOU MUST SPEND THE MONEY, there is no other option."

So, if you care to respond, thanks. If not, thanks anyway!


------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

This is easy... several Yamaha CVP models cost $10k or more. They are fully-functional arrangers and you get a nice grand piano as a bonus.

OK. If I have to spend $10-grand, I'm with Esh on this one! A Yamaha CVP would be my choice as well. I played one in the Florida Keys several years ago and loved it. It ain't portable, but what the hell, everyone needs a fantasy once in a while.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Okay, but that doesn't solve the issue -- which is to have access to as many high quality styles as possible to stimulate songwriting... not to have a baby grand in the living room. We're assuming we want the most bang for the buck from the $10,000 to produce music, not gain hardware just because.

Or, if you think owning a Tyros2 or G70 or whatever is enough (pocket the rest) and then just dig through a zillion styles, most of which are not good... if that's your answer, that's fine, too and I'd welcome your input. But if your opinion is that $10,000 is a figure that would allow for quite an impressive style-playing factory, that's the point. Thanks!

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

You're missing the point of a different perspective... not everyone would spend money on styles. I don't really use the styles that come with an arranger and I absolutely never buy third-party styles... that's not how I stimulate my songwriting. None the less I answered your question as you phrased it. For me the hardware is the most important aspect - polyphony, sound quality, key action/feel, controller options, etc. And I am a pianist who often has to settle for second-rate piano substitutes. A CVP would not go in my living room, it would go in my studio and be a valuable asset to stimulate songwriting. Even if a CVP wasn't an option (room availability being a big factor for me), I would still spend all the money on music hardware.

BTW: if you do decide to spend $10K on musical equipment, spend it in South Carolina either this weekend or the weekend after Thanksgiving... those are tax exempt weekends designed for back-to-school shoppers and all music equipment, computers, software and accessories are tax-exempt. That would mean a savings of $600 on $10k.

Geeeeze, Gary... you just ruined my day!

.... not to take this thread in another direction, because the one in which it is heading is interesting, but two phrases which I am hearing more and more, and are becoming more and more annoying are "... for your age..." and "... other than that, you're fine ..." ...
t.

It's doubtful anyone can amass 35,000 styles without spending a dime and not violate some original writer's copyright..........

If inspiring styles are your main criterion for creativity, there would probably be an awful lot more of them out there if people didn't trade and give them away.

You also have to look at the fact that style creation tends to be retroactive - the music has to exist before someone writes a style that sounds like it - and songwriting and creation are forward looking......... you are trying (hopefully) to create something that no-one has heard, yet. So a style for it doesn't exist, yet.

My advice would be ONE good arranger (I'm not touching THAT one!), and then software like Reason, or Acid, or Live and a HUGE loop library to take your initial idea, and turn it into something REALLY fresh. Virtual Guitarist 2 (or similar) for guitar parts, Culture for percussion, Stylus RMX for beats, etc., etc,,

You can make an arranger do some REALLY interesting things by writing styles that only CONTROL Live, or Stylus RMX, or any software package that accepts MIDI control, and have access to FAR more original sounds than any arranger........

Since I have a T2, I'd probably spend the money on a good Grand Piano and/or Hammond B3 w/Leslie for my studio. Oh boy would that be fun!!!

I can dream can't I?

------------------
Al Giordano
www.al-giordano.com

Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums

It's likely that I have violated someones copyright, however, over the years I have purchased thousands of styles from a host of sources. Some were great--many were awful. While I have some shared styles in my archives, the irony of this is some were styles that I created during the past decade. It was a real shock to buy back some of my own styles, but for the most part it didn't make much difference.

As for the CVP, I would use it in a permanent nightclub setting, which would eliminate set up and tear-down time.

Hey Tony, look in the mirror--you'll find there's an old guy looking back at you!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Bill:

First, I'd probably opt for a T2 (or 3, if available when you send me the money) and with the rest of the cash, I'd make sure I loaded up with all the styles I'm interested in using. I'd also probably commission one of the great style-creators to produce a style or two using the dobro. I'm hearing it played in more and more songs... not just bluegrass.

Next, I'd experiment with Controllers and better sound systems like Bose PAS and others.

If I had any money left over, I'd consider buying a recent Korg or Roland G70 or whatever keyboard I considered highly after a significant trial at George Keyboard shop in California. He's such a knowledgable guy!
Hope your funds approve air-fare, lodging and car rental!

All my best. Your fellow songwriter.

Dave Rice

If I'm only writing songs, it's a no brainer for me. For "instant gratification purposes ( ie out of the box playability ) I go for the hardware arranger that also best works as a controller, and then spend the rest on software apps, samples, effects, and modules for better sounds. As a "songwriter", I'd have the luxury of being able to tweak sounds as I like, so it would make sense to me to buy the best sounds this money can buy. You could eat up what's left of 10 grand after a hardware artranger purchase rather quickly with some of the better quality sample sets and effects.

Even though apps like Band in A box, Jammer pro and the like aren't real time arrangers in quite the sense that a hardware board is, they are very good scratch pad tools. I'm assuming I don't have these to start with and have to buy them( though in real life I do have them all ). I also look at FL Studio and Orion as kind of a do it yourself arrangers, since you make up the styles ( patterns ) on the fly as you go. Then there is OMB, a true software arranger.

Kind of already done a good bit of this though... I just could use a better hardware arranger I suppose, and then the rest I'd spend on higher quality sample sets than I currently own and perhaps some good commercial styles.

I used to think it was a "toy" vs my hardware arrangers, but I was very surprised at how good some of the BIAB styles sounded after I put some better quality sounds in my computers. In fact, maybe I'll throw out a couple of demos soon to illustrate the difference using BIAB ( and some of my other software apps including OMB ) with the sound modules I used to use ( eg. Soundcanvas and some of my hardware boards ) vs what I use now.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 08-05-2006).]

Hi ,
I don't think I'd swap the type of setup I have at the moment.

Be oh so tempting to dash out & buy a new E80 or Tyros 2 etc ,and a few months down the line I'd be wondering what new styles & features the Tyros 3 will have.
Don't know whether there's any really TOP quality styles to be purchased anyway.
Purchased the majority of the disks that were created for the Technics range. Look back at the money wasted on styles I never really used. Buy a disk & get stuck with one or 2 styles you like , the rest never got used.

So if I was starting from scratch for home studio, I'd buy the the top of the line Clavinova CLP ( No styles) as I can't do without my piano
a top of the line pc to run my softsynths & music software,
a controller keyboard (for pitchbend, modulation wheel )
and the rest on software & softsynths.

One doesn't actually require an arranger keyboard for styles.
Inexpensive software like Jammer & Band in a Box have 100's of styles to choose from and they even help in the creative process of song writing. They give you ideas for chord progressions, melodies etc.

best wishes
Rikki

p.s. AJ , luv to hear some of your BIAB demo's.
I'm totally wrapped that I've finally found a source of New Age styles (in BIAB) It's a genre most keyboards don't cater for.
Currently i'm still putting a custom soundfont together for these styles and amazingly I think my soundfont does a better job than my sd1 as a soundsource.

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 08-05-2006).]