I had a PA800 and, out of the box, it sounded like it had a blanket over it. It was dull, lifeless sounding, even after e.q. My customers (fans, clients, whatever) even TOLD me it didn't sound as good as what they were used to hearing from me.
It had the original OS.
I want to know how PA800 owners think it sounds in comparison to Yamaha, Ketron, Korg, Roland.
Thanks,
DonM

Hi DonM
If the OS is less then version 1.5 then it will sound like a cheap Wal-Mart special, however if you upgrade the OS to 1.5 or above you will not believe it is the same instrument, as the sound is totally transformed.
Hope this helps

Bill

How can an upgrade make such a huge difference????? Alarming thread.

DONM

out of the box it sounds so so

but if you are not lazy and edit sounds\styles\add samples, it can become a killer ,and you can ask my fans they hear the difference,

Sounds to me like we have an indication of a gross lack of (KORG) quality control here! I bet those Indonesians were laughin’, smokin’ crack cocaine, and swilling liquor while they were supposed to be checking the 800’s out. Sounds to me like some of em' might have spilt a little of their hooch into the speakers.

Cheers!

R/I

Since the PA-800 is a home keyboard, it is questionable how many owners would want to (or be able to) do all this work to make their instrument sound "killer".

Should sound that way out of the box, in my opinion.

Ian

Ian - you're spot on. Seems crazy to me that a company can charge mega bucks for a home keyboard yet they haven't optimized the settings to sound good on the rack in the store or when the buyer turns it on.

If there are standard settings that need to be set, they should be set at the factory.

Cheers!

R/I

[This message has been edited by Rejected Idol (edited 10-17-2007).]

Very true. The S900 sounds killer right out of the box (IMO). Hopefully, there is a simple fix to the 800 to make it sound "killer".

How about the Double D's? (Dnj/Dave). Have you guys had to do extensive tweeking. Do you still love the 800?

The Korg site showcasing sounds/styles is amazing. That's what I'd expect.

And what about the freeze problems I read about on the Korg forum? Seems many have this problem.

zuki

You're right. I played an S900 at Guitar Center and the sounds were great! I asked them if they had any samples loaded or if they had been modifying the patches and they said they had just unpacked it. The S900 sounds and plays great. Might be my next keyboard.

Cheers!

R/I

rikki has just bought a PA800 and loves it. And she is an experienced arranger user having owned Yamaha, Ketron and Technics keyboards. I trust her judgement. Obviously the PA800 is capable of competeing with other arrangers out there.

Hi ,
personally I think it's great.

Updates have usually been nothing more than bug fixes in most of the keyboards I've had to date.

Apart from fixing the odd bug , korg have actually added new sounds , new features & revised some styles in their various upgrades to date.
So personally I'm not complaining, maybe they'll add more new features, sounds etc over the coming months/years. Who knows.

Had a couple of updates for my psr1500, certainly didn't get any new sounds or features, maybe the T2 owners did better?

Ketron SD1+ 4.0c update, haven't got a clue what it was supposed to do, though I did notice some of my midi functions finally worked the way they were supposed to.

I'm finding it more than playable just as it is, (there again I'm only a home keyboardist) No doubt over the coming weeks I'll be delving into the amazing style/pad/ sound editing/creation functions this keyboard has to offer.

Soundwise it leaves my Psr1500 sounding pretty poor, there again not a fair comparison considering the price difference.
As for the SD1+, can't say, the SD1 's upstairs hooked up to a $1,500 sound system, I'm playing the PA800 thru it's own speakers other end of the house.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Nigel,
great to hear from you.
Don't know about experienced , definately a "prolific" arranger user . haa haa.
Actually you forgot to mention Roland. I've owned about 6 of those over the years as well. Ahh , the good old days. haa haa.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nigel:
[B]And she is an experienced arranger user having owned Yamaha, Ketron and Technics keyboards.

Surely sound is a subjective thing....if a keyboard came as it was meant to sound or optimised then why add the ability to tweak in the first place? Probably because what sounds 'optimal' to me won't to you. That's the whole point (unless I am missing something)?

I only know I never bought a keyboard yet I did not have to tweak one way or another to make it sound like I wanted it to. That includes Tyros, G70, 9000Pro, KN 7000 ...heck the list is endless.

Look at when the G70 was released....you could not move here for people saying it sounded bad ..... and now a year or so later I hear nothing but praise here for the G70 piano sound. Did everyones hearing change or maybe updates and tweaks worked the magic?

Being in the market myself atm I am however quite interested in the fact that Don's perception of the PA800 (and that of his audience) is less favourable than most of the reports I have read. I have the utmost respect for Don and I know he knows his gear which is what makes me sit up and take note.

I am leaning toward the PA800 but my local dealer does not stock korg. I will have to have a trip down to Blackpool to have a play with one. I have never had a Korg arranger before (well unless you count an i40m module many moons ago). I did own a Triton for a while though. It is either the PA800, PA1x or I may buy another G70. Having already owned a G70 the korgs are attractive simply because they are the only major brand I have never had.

I did have to smile though at Ian's comment that it should sound killer out of the box..... a bit ironic given that quite a few S900 customers have had to take delivery of two or three boxes before they are happy with their 'killer' machine.

Just an observation.

regards
Tony

Gidday rikki. It is always a pleasure to see you involved in discussion on the forums here.

You certainly are experienced so please don't underestimate that. You have owned and used a full range of arrangers over the years. I know from your postings that you carefully compare sounds, styles and features before you decide to buy. I and many other people here value your opinions. When you say you love the PA800 I take that as a serious endorsement of the keyboard .... or else I know you would be moving on and finding something else that does meet your requirements lol

Hugs & Cheers,
Nigel


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 10-17-2007).]

Hi Tony,
check the operating system if you can & that it's "1.51."
I gather it was a fairly major software upgrade. I think it's the one that gave us guitar mode .
It's still all pretty new to me. My last korg arranger goes back to the i2 12 or so years ago.
Mine was brand new but it still had the original operating system. Small country town , they don't sell PA800's very often haa haa.

You may not see it at it's optimum if it's got the original system.

It was very simple to do.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony W:
[B]

I will have to have a trip down to Blackpool to have a play with one.

I have had my PA800 about two weeks. I decided to go down to my dealer after seeing the endorsements by UD and Donny. I played around with it, and found the OS quite intuitive, and the styles and sounds good. By comparison to the KN7000, which I have been gigging with for the past four years, the PA800 sounded as good.

I was advised to make sure it had 1.51 loaded, so I told the dealer that I would buy it if they loaded it into the board. No problem, they downloaded it from the Korg website, and had it in in about twenty minutes.

Well, let me tell you that it made the whole thing come alive. My regulars have commented that they love the new sound.

IMHO. the KN7000 sounds good, and has been my constant companion, but the PA800 has it beat.

This is just the humble opinion of an old warhorse that has been playing countless keyboards ever since they came out about 1980.

Bernie

Hi
must admit, Donny & UD chatting away got me interested in the PA800 also.

Being a long long time Technics fan, & after numerous discussions with Bernie on how it compared with the KN7, I realized it sounded like it could be the right keyboard for me too.

I certainly haven't been dissapointed.

So thanks guys.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernie9:
[B]
IMHO. the KN7000 sounds good, and has been my constant companion, but the PA800 has it beat.

Hi,



as documented in the upgrade manual the introduction of the guitar track has forced the company to revise a quantity of styles.

And I believe they developed it with this in mind. Looks to me perfectly reasonable.

Just my thought.

Regards.

I knew by the way this thread was going that someone was bound to mention the woes of a few S900 customers...glad it was you, Tony...you are so eloquent.

Still, as Zuki, and many others have pointed out on other threads, the S900 sounds super right out of the box...fortunately for me and ALL the other Canadian owners, it was the first box...


It is surprising that with an instrument of the PA-800's price and obvious build quality that they couldn't get the most important part right....the sound.

I imagine there are owners who like to tweak, but I still stand by my opinion that that MOST home owners do not want to have to fiddle with their new instrument to get the optimum sound.

Pity the stores in my area won't stock Korg arrangers anymore...they weren't big sellers compared to Roland, Yamaha and Casio, but a friend of mine is thinking about getting a PA-800 whilst on a trip to Toronto, so I may finally get to try one out for myself...that should be interesting.

Ian

Thanks for all your input! To be fair, remember that I bought probably the FIRST PA800 in the U.S. The Korg rep personally delivered it for me.
Obviously the OS upgrade has made a major difference in sound. I had a PA80 some years ago and loved the sound of it.
Several people who's opinions I value listened to the 800 when I had it and the assessment was univeral - nobody liked it. I gave it my best shot for a couple months and just couldn't get it to sound right, so I sold it.
I am quite happy with the Yamaha S900, but when I get a chance I will listen to a "new" PA800 again.
Since I got my replacement S900 I have had no problems so far. My first one had obvious damage to the case, so I don't think you can throw it into any lack-of-quality category.
DonM

Hello Ian

I know it was wicked but I could not help myself .... I was not particularly knocking Yamaha though to be honest. In fact I adored the 9000pro and the Tyros I bought to replace it. In between owning the two I did seriously consider the 3000 until I actually saw it in the store. It sounded wonderful but looked awful in my opinion. I think this was more to do with my own superfical hang ups about the way something looks than anything else tho

It was more a dig at how we all tend to jump to the defence of our current brand of choice whilst eagerly pointing out the less attractive attributes of the competition. I have been as guilty of this in the past as anyone and always put it down to a need to justify to myself my spending decisions rather than to put anyone else down.

I find it gets much easier to be objective when you realise that given a chance (someone else's cheque book) you would buy them all

I have not had an arranger for the past 12 months so I am quite looking forward to my trip to Blackpool to play all the latest and greatest. Despite my naughty jibe I will try out the S900 too .....Heaven help me if I like it enough to buy one....I will have to eat some serious humble pie

Regards
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 10-18-2007).]

Tony,

I get your drift.

I should say, my obvious zealousness for Yamaha, which would still be there even if I wasn't connected in the small way that I am, in no way lessens my fascination with other arrangers.

My favorite, outside the Yamaha Universe, is the Roland E-80, which is a real nice play and although it's not very portable because of it's weight, it would be a great home keyboard, and a nice compliment to things Yamaha.

The Korg PA-800 demos did not impress...sort of a murky area between the Yamaha polished sound and the Roland "live" sound, but not embracing enough of either to have a cognitive impact on me.

Perhaps I'll be having some of that humble pie once I play one and hear it in person.

Ian

Ian.

You are right.
Some branches has a personnal sound that allows you to know what kind of arranger is playing.
You can like or dislike Yamaha sound but you know when listen a Yamaha.
The same for Rolands and Ketrons.
Korgs has a lack of personality in voices.

with that said why does Zuki want to get rid of the S900....? I got that feeling reading his posts that he was getting something new the other day....?

previous post....

"....Zuki.....didnt you just get it?
Whats happening?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-18-2007).]

I would have thought a voracious keyboard consumer like yourself would already know the answer, Donny.

Ian

S900 vs a Pa800 is not a equal comparison.
Maybe a T2.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-18-2007).]

You're right Donny...there is no comparison.

That's why I like the S900 so much...NOTHING compares to it...it is a superb instrument based on it's own merits.

Ian

Oh Boy

And a Bontempi is a SUPERB home keyboard, based on it's OWN merits...!

Of course, as soon as you start to COMPARE...

Seriously, though... sadly, Yamaha refuse to place an arranger in the mid-price bracket. You go straight from the $1700 PSR S900 to the $3500 T2. No stripped down T2 at $2500, no better constructed S900 at $2500...

That's a hell of a pricing gap, IMO. Comparisons between the S900 and ANY $2k+ arranger are going to have to address build quality issues, no matter HOW much Ian doesn't think they factor in. OS, sounds and styles, the S900 has a lot going for it. Were Yamaha to make it in a PA800 quality form factor, we could have a MUCH more direct comparison.

But until most of us here develop the skills that Ian has, to completely ignore ANY tactile feedback from keybed and buttons and to concentrate on the sound and OS ONLY, the S900 will have to always be the 'ugly duckling' of arrangers. Maybe Yamaha will one day let it become the swan it already SOUNDS like.

Until then, those poor musicians like me amongst you will have to go back to our pitiful arrangers, that only FEEL like a real keyboard (OK, they sound pretty good, too!), and only dream of the day that flimsy keybeds and buttons don't matter any more...

Diki,

Armchair hypothesizers like yourself really crack me up...

Of course YOU know how to market keyboards and Yamaha doesn't...

Why hasn't some company snapped up a such a clever lad such as you?

Stick to playing buddy...leave the marketing to people far more qualified than you.

Ian

Hi Ian,
I must admit I was finding it hard to decide between the PSRs900 & the PA800.
It was the pads & onboard style & pad editing functions that won me over in the end. I'm a style editing/creating nut ( & now pads have been added to the equation).

The problems that some of the members were having with the s900's didn't influence my desicion in the end. I was fortunate enough to be able to afford to keep my psr1500. Next time hubby's feeling in a super generous again, the s900 sounds like a great upgrade for the psr1500. haahaa

I enjoy all 3 of my keyboards ( & my OMB softsynth arranger ) each has strong points & weaknesses for me.
Haven't found a weakness yet with the PA800.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ianmcnll:
[B] I knew by the way this thread was going that someone was bound to mention the woes of a few S900 customers...

Not taking this bate, Ian. Play one.

Moi? Baiting? No, Dave, would never try that with a smart fish like yourself....besides, your buddy Donny started the comparisons...too bad he wouldn't do so much editing..it gets a mite difficult to follow the thread.

Hopefully I'll get to try a PA-800...but my friend is not 100% sure he will buy...he has to try it as well.

It was a toss up between the S900 he heard me demo at my home or a Tyros2 or maybe the PA-800.

Whatever it will be, it will have 61 keys.

Time will tell,

Ian

Tony W, it's SO GREAT to see you back in action again. I have missed your wit and insight.
You "new" guys ought to hear some of his songs.
He's a song-writing genius and a great artist as well.
Get your website back up my friend!
DonM

I agree Don.....I still have the song
Tony W wrote for me Years ago its one of my favorites titled

"WHY, Can't I Be Like Donny Pesce"

Tony has been a great friend & is always there when I needed him....I'm so glad hes back in action! & Yes TW get your website up & running again.

Thank You

An excellent example of why this forum needs moderators here all the time.

Leaving the marketing to so called 'experts' has resulted in arrangers at pro prices that come with toy-like keyboards, buttons and cases. EXCUSE ME for thinking that we deserve better. We should, of course, be grateful that Yamaha even bother to make the sound un-toy-like, as apparently, OUR needs and wants should ALWAYS take a back seat to those geniuses in marketing. One can only hope that one day, a sound, a feature or a construction detail doesn't make you ecstatic. You'll know who to thank...

Of course, you'll NEVER let us know things are not perfect in Ianworld, that might jeopardize that part-time clinician gig you keep telling us about It must pay a FORTUNE for you to be so scared of discussing ACTUAL improvements whatever current PSR model might need. Thank God for SZ... I keep thinking, while I read your incessant worship sermons, that I am on Yamaha's own website. But then someone ELSE mentions the toy-like construction, and I remember I am back in the REAL world. Only Ian has somehow followed me here!

Preach on, Reverend.... Tell us more about our Lord Yamaha's infallibility and how we are all sinners to want more than He provides.

Diki,

I love it when I get your goat...purely unintentional, of course...and thanks for the predictable response.

You're so wound up you're even resorting to name calling...thankfully it's a nice name.

Why not step off your little soapbox and get right back into that comfy little armchair, smoke some of your tea, and hypothesize some more.

I can't wait for the next installment.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-19-2007).]

That's up there with Yamaha's high build quality in believability, too, Ian

What are YOU sitting on while you pontificate, Reverend?

whether you (generic context) agree with them or disagree with them, Yamaha sell lots of units of their PSR line, why change a marketing model that is so remarkably successful. (you only need to see the posts, text and musical, that appear at places like PSR world and others to make that judgement). personally i would never use a PSR anything (i did try the 3000 for about 2 days!!), but as i have said before you cannot knock anything that is that successful. Yamaha are not the "musicians benovolent fund" and therefore have no responsibility to anyone other than their shareholders who will soon let them know if something isn't working..Roland, Korg, Ketron et al, have their marketing concepts and plans, and those plans and concepts are probably out of favour with yamaha users, but again, it obviously works for them, so why would they bother to radically alter them as they are obviously working for THEM...
just my 2 cents fellas!
cheers
dennis

Can't say I want Yamaha to change the PSR line at all...

Just ADD a 'pro' line with Motif quality hardware. Simple enough.

You know Diki, by these crude responses and insistent name calling, you are quickly showing me and the other members a side of you that is somewhat at odds with your usual clever demeanor.

Carry on...or should I say...keep digging.

Ian

Hey Don Great to see you as well. Am rather enjoying posting again I am currently in the process of changing DSL provider so when that is done I will move and redo the website.....then you'll be sorry

Donny..... I had forgotten about that. I think it was called 'Why can't I sing like Donny Pesce ' tho .....and all these years later I still can't

Best wishes
Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony W (edited 10-19-2007).]

Tony just to jog your memory here ya go my friend!!!

http://tinyurl.com/2qqj53

rofl You can tell it's an old one, soaked in reverb and even I had trouble making the words out.

I'm sure that was a Techinics KN6000 too so it is definately a while ago!

Thanks for the memory jolt

Tony

Maybe a new version is due at some time in the future Tony when your next KB?

Donny Pesce immortalized in song...cool!

Ian

"Oh What Feeling"

The highest honor a good friend can give...

Thanx so much Tony