Hi gang:
Yesterday I paid a visit to Bell/Solton in Nyack N.Y., to give the new XD9 a try . As a former owner of an X1, I regretted selling it due to the “sloppy” chord harmony generated on the right hand side of the KB while the “harmony” function was “on”. As I mentioned in this forum several times in the past, this one is a problem that I found impossible to live with; since, not being a trained piano player, (I’ve been a guitar player for the last 35 years) I find myself in need of using this feature quite often to enhance the melody line. The problem occurs when, while having the Harmony function “on”, you play consecutive single notes. Every note should sound clean with its own harmony, which is generated by the chord being played with your left hand.

Unfortunately this “transition” does not happen in a “clean, tight” manner on the X1 and now the XD9 (The SD9 has this problem as well); for some reason, the chord sounds “sloppy” (not unison). I own a PSR2000 now, and this keyboard performs this function “flawlessly”.
What a pity! Ketron boards are wonderfully designed for live work; with great sounds and styles and great interaction with the player.
While being there, I had the opportunity to demonstrate this problem to Aldo and Vinny, both technicians at the facility; they acknowledged the problem and promised to report it to Ketron/Solton in Italy.
I hope that this deficiency is one that can be corrected thru a system upgrade by the engineers at Ketron. Not until then, I will be able to call myself a Ketron/Solton owner.
Regards,
Mario

Mario,

As an X4 owner I fully agree with what you say with respect to the harmony feature. In my case, however, I do not use this feature too often and that moderates my "pain". I also had problems with notes "hanging" when in harmony mode, as I previously reported on this forum.

That doesn't prevent me to consider Ketron instruments as terrific machines for live work purposes. So I join to your vows of hope that Ketron wiil correct these problems in future OS upgrades, if possible (in the worst case - of non-upgradeability - in new intruments).

Apart from these considerations, how do you classify the improvements of the XD9 model in relation to the previous X1 (sounds, styles, relevant features/suitability to the live player)?

Thanks,

-- José.

[This message has been edited by matias (edited 07-20-2002).]

Well, alleluia! at last someone to confirm this problem which I thought it was just "lonely me".
Jose:
Thanks for looking into this issue with the Ketron/Solton keyboards, At first, I thought it was just me being a royal pain; but after getting confirmation of the problem by you and the Bell/Solton engineers, I know now that I’ve had a valid claim since I first purchased my X1. Now you’ve just added another Ketron product to the list, the X4.
I hope this group or the folks at Ketron don’t think that I am trying to “talk Down” their products; on the contrary, I think they make some of the best boards around. I am just striving to make them aware of one of the few shortcomings they now have, and, to their benefit, maybe they will correct in the near future.
As for any inprovements on the XD9; there are a few which I was able to detect in the couple of hours I spent there(most of the time I spent with the engineers on the Harmony problem)
1)It looks better than the X1 due to the
gray finish.
2)lighter, about 6 pounds less than the X1, due to the lack of sequencer.
3)Morphing feature. Great.
4)Better interface. Easier navigation.
5)Better key response.
6)Lower price. Although I did not get into specifics.
Among others
Ah, I forgot to mention that the "hig Pitch" noise generated while the board was "neutral" on the X1, I did not detect, although I did not conected it to an amplifier to find out further.
Mario




[This message has been edited by Mario (edited 07-20-2002).]

Hello Mario
After reading your post I went to the XD9 in my store, selected a voice (clarinet) and tried all the different harmony types while playing a style in the left hand. I do not hear anything strange at all. It played all the duet, trio, jazz, etc. harmony's just fine. Please, what is it you are detecting and what voices were you using when trying out the harmony.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Hi George:
Thanks for looking into this problem. let me try to explain.
Once you turn the harmony feature "on", select any piano sound, play any chord with the left hand and then play two or three notes in succession at a moderately fast speed on the right side of the board, you will hear "extra" notes (sort of in between the notes being played) that have nothing to do with what you are actually playing; this is the reason I call it "sloppy" because it isn't a clean cut chord in response to the chord that you are actually playing with the left hand. It should be a match, and the notes of the harmony should be heard at the same time, evenly, each time you play a single note.
If you want to hear how it should actually sound , just try the same procedure in the PSR2000 (or the 9Kpro) and see the difference in the response of both keyboards. It's night and day. As AJ said in the past when addressing this problem, some brands of keyboards have a different approach to chord harmony recognition, some are faster than others. Ketron/Solton KBs are just too slow to be acceptable in my opinion. Yamaha has it "nailed" perfect.
Most people will not mind this deficiency if all they do is play single notes with their right hand. But if you are into the Chord harmony feature, it can drive you "bonkers" as it does me. I hope that I have explained this properly so you can diagnose it and perhaps with your influence and clout with the folks at Ketron, they can address this problem and have it corrected in the near future. I truly want to own one of these great Keyboards; it is the only thing stopping me from buying one.
Thanks again.
Mario

Mario,
I came into the store this morning to try out the harmony issues you mentioned. Here's what I found out.
Yes, when using the piano voices along with harmony on, you can hear a triggererd sound when you release the key after playing a chord with the right hand. Not all sounds do this. I tried clarinet, trumpet, Sax, flute and all these didn't respond like the piano did. I then tried this on the X1 and the SD1 and all did the same.
I will be talking to the right people at Ketron about this next week to see if I can get an explanation as to why and if this can be changed.
George Kaye
kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thanks George, I truly appreciate your help on this issue. Hopefully all it will take is just a simple OS upgrade for all this machines, I am sure it can be corrected.
Regards,
Mario

Mario and George,

We are currently looking into this matter with regards to:

X-series
XD-series
SD1.

Thanks,

AJ

Hi AJ:
Thanks for your help on this issue. WE've touched on this a while back (you were not assotiated with Ketron a the time) and you looked into the problem and responded to me saying(if I remember correctly) that "every manufacturer has a different approach to Chord harmony formation" or something to that effect; which happens to be true since Yamaha's way of doing it is "seamless". At that time I also mentioned the problem to Lou up in Nyack, but little was done about it. I am happy that you are part of their team and with your extensive knowledge and clout with ketron, hopefully this problem will be corrected soon.
Have a great day!
Mario

Mario,
I just received an email from Ketron in Italy regarding my email to them explaining the problem with playing piano and other voices and hearing the note off problem when you release the keys and here's the quote you've been waiting for:
"concerning point of George Kaye on Harmony with Piano, we found right his
observation and we have planned to correct this soonest with next Update."
Sandro"
Thanks for bringing this to my attention Mario. Hopefully we will see a correction very soon.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

[This message has been edited by George Kaye (edited 07-26-2002).]