Since this issue or variations of this issue was brought up in different threads, I thought I would start a new thread about it.

Are keyboards today giving us all that they can give us with respect to the computer technology. Should we be demanding more and seamless interaction and integration between keyboards and computers?

Are we getting enough memory, software compatibility and upgradeability for keyboards?

Sometimes I wonder if we should compare the advances of consumer computer technology which has a larger user base with keyboard technology.

One of the problems I have with keyboards today is that I feel that it does not seem as if manufactures are concentrating on major software development. I know that they are not computer experts, but these half steps that they are doing with software development makes it seem as if the keyboard technology is way behind other computer base products.

Should we be demanding more from keyboard manufacturers?

Ah - this sounds like digitalvision's thread...

As I've pointed out in previous discussions, the problem with getting so-called "current technology" into a keyboard is the development time it takes to design, manufacture and program a keyboard. It appears that the timeline from concept to shelf is about three years optimistically... so you have to use circuits and processors from 2002 to have a keyboard ready in 2005. That's not to mention training the sales and tech team that has to be in place for customer support, authoring and printing manuals, etc. And not only that but the keyboard has to appeal to a broad user base for the mass production effort to pay off, which keeps the unit cost down. This is no small feat.

I think the customizable Open Labs eKo concept is the closest to bringing current computer technology into a music product, but at very high cost because of the low demand.

I think the solution is for some company to develop keyboard "shells": controllers that hold laptops conveniently and provide the necessary audio and physical interfaces. But evcen then you'd have to deliver 61/76/88 note versions both weighted and non-weighted. And a really good "shell program" would be needed too so that the laptop OS behaved more like the OS of a synth.

Otherwise, keyboards like the Motif that can provide a Firewire computer audio/MIDI interface seem to provide the closest bridge between computers and keyboards that we have currently. And I think more companies will adopt the idea of making keyboards that readily interface with softsynths in the future.

I'm not all that sure that consumers on the whole are ready for souped-up keyboards. I see that Roland has provided it's V-Link on the new G70 arranger and I started thinking "oh boy, a way to interface video projection with an arranger for interactive a/v concerts!"... then I think about the cost to do such a show and how many of my current clients would have an interest in it or could afford to pay me more to present such a show - the answer is none. My used and discontinued Yamaha 9000 Pro is already way above what most people can relate to, either in terms of utilizing all of the features it has as a performer or in terms of entertainment value to an audience.

The demands I would like to make of keyboard manufacturers are relatively small: for example, I would like to see Yamaha put it's Tyros or CVP-900 arrangers into a 76-note "portable pro" package. That's not asking for more than what they can do with technology they've already developed. And it's not asking for more than I can use as a pro player. Otherwise I think that keyboards will continue to be dragged into the future at their current technological pace.

Maybe the question should be ...Are KB Players all they could be? It doesn't matter what fancy shmancy things they come out with if many people can't play, understand or utilize them. Yea they'll tease & fleece us along as they have been doing for years and years because they have to keep making money without giving away the whole enchilada.
A few peoples wants and needs wont sway the vote vs the masses vs the companies profits & thats the bottom line.....so hang in there, enjoy the ride, & save your pennies...



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-20-2004).]

Yeah, what Pro and Donny said, and...

Keyboards are products of market demand. Yes, there is a definite market for higher-end machines, but Yamaha makes a lot more money selling PSR 180s and the like as it does selling Tyros and PSR 3000. Roland does the same thing. And don't forget all of these manufacturers have home digital pianos that have the same or similar features.

If I could have my dream machine, I think the upcoming G70 is pretty close. As an organist/pianist, I see the G70 having most of the features I use. What I really demand is a hands-on interface that is easy to use, with a minimum of hidden pages.
For what it's worth...

The Tyros does everything I need it to do. Totally satisfied.
. . . now what's next?? Can't wait to see how much the G70 weighs. I'll bet it's a tank.
I would probably like the small GEM, but still haven't been able to demo one after, what, a year or so.
DonM

Keyboards that have a sampler built in like the Fantom X should be way faster. If they are going to include the possibility to expand your keyboard to 500mb sample space, then it shouldn't take 20 to 30 minutes to load 500mb of samples every time you turn the thing on. And, with 120 gig hard drives at your local computer store, is 192 megs of internal Rom that impressive? I mean sheesh, your current flagship keyboard is about 1/1000 the size of a current harddrive?

One thing that amazes me is the length of time that the Korg Pa1X takes to load, process and save. Anything I do on my computer takes a fraction of the time (and I paid a fraction of the price for my desktop computer than I did for the keyboard).

Secondly, the touch screen of the Korg is such hard work to use, that I believe the designers really screwed up here. The concept is great, but the implementation is poor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sounds of this keyboard, but you sure work for it! I'll be very interested to compare the G70 when it comes out too!

------------------
Graham

This is a little OT, I'll respond to this taken out of context, "but these half steps that they are doing".
I realize that mfg's need to make money, but these 1/2 steps and also 1 step forward, 1/2 back is frustrating. Yamaha removing the buttons from the PSR3K, that is so wrong. Will they re-introduce them with the next model?
1st the Tyros had Mega voices, now the PSR3K has mega voices, next year, the PSR1500 replacement will have Mega voices. Duh..Gee that is so inovative. The software on the PSR1500 looks similar to the PSR3K. So is the PSR1500 all that it could be? No. Could they have made it better? Absolutely.
The PSR550 has been replaced by a downgraded PSR450: More voices, but XG voices downgraded to XG light, more high quality voices, but can only record on 6 tracks, the PSR550 had a button below each track, this is gone on the 450 (more give and take-away). If Yamaha would have introduced the PSR450 without being downgraded, I would have upgraded, but the PSR1500 is out of my budget (for now). Was this a marketing mistake?
Ok I am just ranting. I apologize. The good news about all this, especially for me (since I can't afford either one right now), is this. "TIME IS ON THE CONSUMERS SIDE". The longer you wait, the better keyboard you will have. So I will patiently save my pennies. By the time I can afford a PSR1500/PSR3K they will have become even better. The PSR1500 will be where the PSR3000 is today. Maybe the PSR3K will have all the buttons returned.
Starkeeper

P.S. Here's my prediction( for the record): The PSR1600 will have mega voices. We'll see.


[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 10-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 10-20-2004).]

The ad' banner says it all at the top by showing a picture of a Triton. Got to be the worst case of an upgrade. It's still a souped up Trinity, and they came out, what? 8 Years ago. Same for several other companies.

The BOTTOM LINE in the corporate world is profits. Whatever they can get away with to drive up profit & sales, they'll do. It's up to us the consumer to determine whether it's worth it (to us) to UPGRADE to the next model (yet) or not. Hardware & software Manufacters are banking their products on built in obsolescence. Only when sales drop will the keyboard manufacters only bring out new models when significant feature advancements are made. Power to the people. We drive the market. - Scott