DonM,
Thanks for the tip. Will try that again, if I accidentally hit the ending button.
Starkeeper

Starkeeper,
Made the same mistake myself.. (several time too)... The buttons should be a little farther apart.. As far as the demo buttons.. I think they should be far away from crucial function buttons on any keyboard.. Actually I think all demo songs should be on a disk, and that extra memory should be used for sounds and features... I had a synth once that had demos, but there was not a demo button on the keyboard anywhere.. There was demo disks, and you loaded the song into the sequencer.. What made this so awsome was that you could use the performance set and samples used for that demo song to do your own... You could clear the demo song and have fun with the performance.. Hey Bluezplayer, is the Motif set up that way? Didn't check on that one when I played it.... I assume it's still the same way as the previous EX models.. Does the Motif also have the factory reset on disks like the EX series?

Squeak

Squeak,
Totally agree that demos should be on disc. This still alows sales personell to demo the unit and allows more ROM space for styles and sounds, since ROM space is Soooo expensive (Starkeeper sarcasm).
Starkeeper

Wow,
With all the aforementioned blunders, I'm glad I'm using mine for studio and friends. With friends, the more mistakes, the more fun we all have.
By the way, I was watching Who's Line and Laura Hall usually plays a grand with the Korg i-30 on top. One song accidently sped up to an uncontrollable tempo while a musical skit was being performed and all hell broke loose. It was one of the funniest shows I've watched. Anybody see that one?
Zuki

Yeah Zuki, I saw that one, too ... my stomach hurt from laughing so hard. Who's Line is probably one of the funniest things on TV imo. By the way, do any of you play the Irish Drinking Song? Could be fun in a live gig. Maybe where Guinness is served

Thanks folks for clearing up the pros and cons on the touch screen issue! I didn't realize that some functions are burried so deep inside and hard to get to when I tried the AT-90S. And I didn't look to see if it has a Direct Access button like some of the Yamahas do. I just thought in some situations, especially when playing in the dark, the touch screen is really handy and it seemed to be quite responsive, too. But then again I only played around on the AT-90S for 10 minutes or so. Does anyone know how much that thing costs? Probably a fortune and a half...

[This message has been edited by Evangelical (edited 01-22-2003).]

Hmmmmmm. Here's a good idea where makers who use the touch screen could benefit.. Add a direct access button to the face like Yamaha does, but utilize the numeric keypad.. Have preset ones, and allow the user to customize their own as well.. This would eliminate some of the problems... Now that I think about it I would be very unhappy without the direct access on my keyboard.. I use it ALL THE TIME! I use that button for everything from voice volume, DSP, Reverb, Chorus, and just about every function it allows.. It saves so much time..

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-22-2003).]

How many of you use the demo button on a gig?(sorry UD). Stick a piece of duct tape (the handyman's secret weapon) across it (or any othe button you don't use).

Bryan

Re: problems with touch screen - There is a marked difference between the usability of touch screen vs. the buttons. The strength of the touch screen, or any elaborate visual interface, such as Windows' menuing system, is that it can help an unfamiliar, novice user get around the instrument functions easily. As such, it is a very useful tool for the salespeople, who are not too familiar with the instrument they are trying to demo, and for casual home users, who do not routinely go beyond the very basic functions of an instrument.

The underside is that using a screen, you have to operate it sequentially, i.e. getting through one menu level at a time. Obviously, navigating through the levels of the menu takes more time. The problem with Roland's touch screen is that it is designed for large fingers, i.e. display density is very low, with fairly few screen "buttons" displayed at a time. This requires more menu levels to get to the functions you need.

The other disadvantage of a large screen, in lieu of buttons, is that the user must wait to see the screen being updated, before seeing that the previous selection was the one he intended to make, and being able to select the next "button". This takes the player's concentration away from the audience.

The buttons are not as flexible, but they have a number of advantages: first, they can be pressed concurrently, or almost so - for example I can press the Upper1 and Upper2 buttons at the same time, and the parts will be toggled. I can select the Bank and Sound by two concurrent button presses (of course this only works on a keyboard which has separate sets of buttons for bank and individual selections, i.e. on E-70, but not quite so easy on G-1000).

Second, a button provides tactile feedback to your action of button press. This means that the user does not have to take his eyes off the audience (or his fake book, or wherever) just to change a setting of his instrument.

IMHO, the most user-friendly arranger was Korg i30. It allowed you to use the buttons in a performance, and screen while setting up or playing at home. The VA-7/76 has gotten the sound/style/perf selection almost right; the Favorite sounds buttons are useful too. However, they decided to skimp in the real time style controls, and having to go through the screen to select between the variations (there is one button, I believe) is a drag.

That is why most home users and people seeing a demo at the store like the VA- series, while those of us who play live and have to quickly adjust to the audience requests and moods, do not.

The same goes for the eKo keyboard - it will only be useful to live arranger players if it offers a panel of many discrete buttons for realtime control, preferrably with feedback indicator lights (perhaps in place of the rotary pots panel on the picture). While having a large screen to show the status of the current selections is useful (on a single screenful), there should be no functions used in live play which would require the user to to through the screen menus.

Regards,
Alex

Alex, one of the innovations of the eKo is the interchangeability of the control panels. A special panel with arranger buttons could be packaged with an arranger program. OpnLabs has indicated a willingness to work with 3rd party developers on such packages. However, whether anyone will do an arranger package remains to be seen.

Clif,

I understand that eKo is supposed to have the capability to support interchangeable panels; however, at this point this is barely more than a proof of concept prototype. Although the people who conceived it must be applauded, it remains to be seen whether it will fly as a product, let alone garner enough support from third parties to cater to ours, arranger keyboardists' needs, as we are a fairly small chunk of the market.

I was merely saying in my previous post that for live performers the platform will not be useful in its present form.

We should distinguish between the things the instrument should be able to do and the ones it actually does - there are big disconnects between the two in any instrument each of us owns, as we all make suggestions to the manufacturers of what to incorporate into software updates. Many of our suggestions are left unfulfilled, leaving us to gripe, complain, and sometimes switch to a different brand.

Regards,
Alex